Thanks Aquaholic for taking and emailing the pictures. That helps me out a lot.

I'm in agreement with Joel and bab that the thing to do now is let this play itself out. Let's see what happens with this situation first (and I was SO looking forward to checking out the Bloomington branch on Thursday) I trust David's judgement and am following his advice to the letter. Rest assured that balls are rolling and that I will keep everyone informed as much as I am able to.

On a lighter note, I can heartily recommend the Blackhawk CQC Serpa as a good retention holster. It took the officer nearly 30 seconds to figure out and remove my weapon, with absolutely no resistance from me. I figure the odds of a "snatch" from a thug are close to zero.

Again, thanks to everyone for their help.

Doug,

Regardless how this plays out, we all owe you a big "THANK YOU!!!!!". As Joel states in his book, test cases are for others. Well to all of us you are "others". You stepped in it for us all so again, thanks. Good luck for sure and stay out of the Bloomington Library!

That is quite funny.

Got home last night and found an (unsolicited) message on my machine from the County Attorney's office. Same guy as before. This time he was calling to correct his previous message. He allowed as how he was wrong about the penalty being stiffer for carrying on government property than on private property. Though he then immediately said he didn't know what the penalty was for carrying on government property , and that such issues would be handled by the city attorney anyway, so that I should contact him.

I really don't know how much of this is accidental ignorance and how much is intentional disinformation.

Hmmm... wouldn't you think if the county doesn't want to get involved in things they don't seem to understand that maybe they shouldn't post illegal signs in the first place? Why is my county spending my tax dollars to pick illegal fights that they then expect my city to spend my tax dollars to resolve That money could be put to better use maintaining our excellent library system

I wouldn't do anything until after this has played out.. but after that, I would suggest an open carry story time or puppet show. Any other parents of young kids out there?

First of all, let me just say that David Gross is good. REAL good. I am very impressed. Joel you're right on about him.

I went to the Edina Police Department this morning, and requested a copy of any incident report or response data that they had concerning my interaction with them. To their credit, they gave me the stuff immediately, with no wait at all. I was expecting to have to have the stuff mailed to me, hassle, etc. so thanks to them for being professional about that.
It's really not much, just the dispatch log. They didn't even write a report on the incident, just noted that I had been given a trespass notice. There is one interesting comment, however:

"Per Det. Konters: The Hennepin County Library System anticipates more 2nd amendment advocates to be challenging signage and the current permit to carry law."

I then went to Perkins and took a box of muffins to the ladies at the library and apologized again for placing them in the middle of our fight. They seemed understanding and were very appreciative of the gesture.
6-7$ well spent.

Then, when I arrived home just now, there was a letter hand-delivered (no postmark) to my door. It was a letter from the library system, stating that my trespass order is rescinded, pending further notice. Like I said above, David is good.

Balls are still rolling. More when I can.

Seems people *are* reading these forums... Not that I'm surprised...

Once again, WTG reaver3!!!


BTW, I have pics of the E.P. library taken yesterday morning, if "our guy" needs/wants them...

Thank you so much for the update. Two thumbs up!

624.714 does not recognize "Government property". There is only Public Property and Private Property. Of course 624.714 preempts any other law pertaining to handguns on public property.

Calling just to change public to government makes me wonder if he is trying to scare you away. He knows your in the right.

It is VERY interesting that you received a hand-delivered note recinding the trespass. Obviously someone else figured out you were in the right.


reaver, did you happen to leave TCCF on the screen of the computer? I'm sure they read it.

Yup. He's got skill, knowledge, talent, and he's earned credibility, over many years. (The chance of the Edina city attorney not knowing about him approaches zero.) This gives him an advantage over an equally skilled, knowledgeable, and talented colleague -- he's long since made his bones.

A mutual friend of ours, a serving LEO, was impressed with David, on his first contact with him some years ago. (It was a bit of silliness that his department was pulling on one of David's clients.) David explained the situation to the department and that city's city attorney, and told them precisely what and when he was going to do... and then did precisely that.

Think of Billy Jack explaining, roughly, "I'm going to put this foot right up against the side of your face, and there's nothing you can do about it."

That said, I'm sure that Detective Konters is right about what the HCLS anticipates, but they're wrong -- what was going on was not a challenge to the current permit to carry law, but of unlawful signage under that law.

It's not infrequent in cases where David gets involved that, somewhere in the bowels of the government bureaucracy, there's an attorney who either already knew or checked out the law is on the phone with some government employee, saying something to the effect of, "You did what?!?!?"

Not always. Sometimes the government employees get an education. (Guess who the lawyer was in this case?)

Which is fine by me -- or, even, more than fine. I'll repeat my invitation to folks in the LEO community to participate here, and add the Hennepin County Library people, as well.

As a fairly new member of this forum, I don't know you all that well (yet) Joel, but I did anticipate your response to be along the lines of what you posted. ...And I couldn't agree more...

I've neglected to personally thank you for this forum, by the way... Allow me to rectify that now with a "Thanks Joel!!!"

Exactly. As usual Joel hits the X-ring with his comments.

Further, what was (is) going on is a challenge ... by Hennepin County, to the current permit to carry law.

As the kids these days like to say, "true dat!"