Unfortunally it sounds like that I might fall under your “having a problem”.

Most weekends I will go out for dinner and have a glass of wine or two, during the meal. The reason I carry a weapon is for protection, not for any other reason and I never know when I might need that protection. That does include while dining out, whether in the in the suburbs or downtown.

Now, maybe I squeak by your discomfort level, because I do not try to “ride the line”. However, I have no problem with being armed (for an emergency) while dining, or during that evening, after the meal.

If it makes you feel safer, I will disclose, that I own a DOT approved breathalyzer and have used it so much that I can almost predict where I am at any given time. (I did not buy it for this purpose; it was purchased for my wife, after she was pulled over and almost got a DWI).

So, while I understand your stance of: “If you are going to drink, put the gun away period” I don’t agree.

I think I got my point across, but I was really refering to those that go to a bar to drink while carrying because they can under the description of the law. If I take a cold medicine of some sort, that alone may show up in an alcohol test of some sort, but I will still carry.

But I will stand by my statement that guns and booze don't mix.

Ok, I think I also got my point across that, absolutes are not helpful.

There are two limits. The first is over .04%, which is a misdemeanor, no matter how many times you do it in your life. It is punishable by fines up to $1000, jail for up to 90 days, and a 180-day suspension of your carry permit.

If you're over .10%, that's the same misdemeanor, but if you repeat, it's a gross misdemeanor, and that's punishable by fines up to $3000, jail for up to 90 days, and a REVOCATION of your permit, with a one-year period before you can apply again.

(And what do you want to bet that your sheriff, with that on your record, could convince a judge that you're a bad bet to carry a gun when you do reapply?)



Color me very dubious.

Here's the example I give in class:

You've been running behind all day. You're suppose to meet your friends at eight at Champps, and between working late and your Red Cross blood donation, you are so behind that you never even get to eat dinner.

You have to park two blocks away, and jog to the restaurant.

You sit down at the bar with your pals and order a rum and coke -- just one!

You grab some grub from your buddy's plate: mmmmm...mozzarella sticks!

The bartender sees how frazzled you look, takes pity, and pours you a double for the price of a single. He's just that nice.

Hey! That's not a Mozzarella stick! It's a jalapeno popper! Hot! Hot!

You gulp down your rum and coke -- you know, the double?

What's your BAC? Huh? What is it? Do you know?

I sure don't, but:

You have an empty stomach, an elevated heart rate, a double pour, and decreased blood volume.

You are going to metabolize that booze a LOT differently than a single pour on a full stomach with a low heart rate and normal hydration and blood volume.

I like my carry permit more than I like beer, wine or booze. "Zero" is a very easy-to-remember and safe number of drinks to imbibe. Anything more than zero, and you're on thin ice.

So why not play it safe?

I just take the pepper spray when I know I know I'm going to be drinking.. even one or two. Counting drinks and watching the clock doesn't make for an enjoyable dinner or night out, in my opinion.

Now I make a statement about me personally, and you come back with an EXTREME example of why my statement makes you dubious. Interesting…

Without going into too many details, I am 6’1’’, 210# male. I have a very steady schedule, I don’t have night meetings before dinner, I have never given blood, I always eat dinner at around the same time and I don’t walk (or jog) unless I absolutely have to (pretty lame life, huh?), which means that I will drive the parking lot for a long time to find a closer in spot.

I have checked my alcohol level most every Friday and Saturday night for the last two years. I do not depend on my ability to guess my alcohol level (although it amazes me how close I can predict it) to carry a handgun. I NEVER carry when I have anymore than two cocktails in the course of a two-hour dinner. I order red wine, its hard to get a double. I can damn well guarantee you that I am nowhere anything even close to .04. The most I have ever tested is a .02. And, yes the tester is calibrated regularly.

I know that you are a “permit teacher” and I assume a damn good one. And I understand that you feel compelled to make an all or nothing statement, but I live in the real world and do not go running out to the car to store my handgun just because I consumed a cocktail.

If the s#*t ever hit the fan, I want to be able to defend myself and my family, one drink or not. I am not worried about getting a citation (or having any kind of a problem) because of my steady (read; boring) lifestyle.

I’m thinking that a loved one, might rather I was in the restaurant eating a meal rather than you (If something bad was to happen)?

Sorry it bothers you.

After thinking this through in real life, I have to go with JDR on this one, while the perfect answer is zero alcohol. Concealed means concealed, and I'm not the type to get in altercations of my own making, and have always been able to de-escalate bar disagreements verbally, even though I'm 6' 4", 210.

That said, I'm not going unarmed to or from a bar or restaurant to anywhere, even my car, if I have loved ones with me. I'd rather take a chance with the law than be defenseless against a lethal threat. The way Murphy works, the one time I didn't carry would be the time I REALLY needed to.

Nah. It's a public discussion board, and it's an important topic. I'm not picking on you at all.



Ooooh. You should. It's a great feeling to help save lives, and it costs you nothing but your time and some stuff your body can replace anyway.

Visit www.givelife.org for more info.



Well, those two statements seem contradictory.



Well, two fallacies here: One, I don't make an all-or-nothing statement. I make a better-safe-than-sorry statement.



Two, you make an all-or-nothing statement: Either drink while carrying, or leave your family unprotected. There's a third possibility that you don't mention: Carry, and have an iced tea!

What my wife likes best about my carry permit is that I am always the designated driver, and she always gets to drink the wine.



Don't worry about me. I'll be okay.

Everyone has to decide for himself. But if one of my students ever gets busted for carrying while intoxicated (`cause they agree with oyu, not me), I really don't feel comfortable with them saying, "But my teacher said having a couple was okay!"

The bumper sticker says, "If you drink, don't drive," not "If you drink more than a couple over a two-hour period, don't drive."

"Zero" is easier to remember, easier to obey and harder to misinterpret. That makes it a good position for a teacher to take.

Same thing here, when ever we go to anyplace that might involve consumption of alcohol, I'm the designated driver.

1) I knew I catch grief for that statement. My only defense is that my father-in law gave over five gallons of blood, over his lifetime to a blood bank that because of his generosity, I have access to.

2) I don’t think it’s contradictory at all. I am usually the designated driver. My wife and I agreed several years ago that we would both always test whenever we have a drink and then get into an automobile. My wife (who was pulled over, some years ago) and I play a game of guessing before testing. If at any time I decide to have more than two cocktails, I excuse myself and go secure the handgun in the car. Again, I can tell if I am approaching a .02 level. Now if I go out intentionally to drink, I do not carry. If I am at home and drinking, (HOLD ON NOW) everyone should be aware that there are a lot of loaded guns around, even if I happen to be blasted. And, guess what, they somehow just stay where they are, all locked up safe and sound.

3) We can argue all day on semantics. My interpretation of your statement; that you recommend to never consume any alcohol of any kind, at any time, for any reason, when you have a handgun on you as an “all or nothing” statement. If you see it as a “better safe than sorry’ statement, that’s fine with me.

4) No, you are suggesting that the best policy is no drinking any alcohol, I’m merely suggesting that moderation works very well, thank you. Your “third possibility” is actually your original option, don’t drink and carry.

5) Are you suggesting that I am to live my life by the recommendations of a bumper sticker? I see a lot of them that I am reasonably sure that would not use as a guide for your actions or lifestyle.

The exchange has been fun. I do appreciate where you are coming from, in that you have an obligation to your students. I’m just trying to inject a bit of realism into the conversation.

Well, I think I’ll go have cocktail now.
Darn it…. I can’t seem to remember where that darn handgun is… Oh, there it is, right in my holster. Oh, hell that’s not my handgun, it’s my breathalyzer………

Darn.................wish I drank so I could get into this zippy conversation. I would go with the coffee/ice tea/soda if I was carrying or if I was going to imbibe I would take an abstaining (carrying) friend

Well, I saw one yesterday that said, "What Would Scooby Do?" That's a good one to live by.

Like I said, we all make our own choices. It sounds like you and your wife are bend-over-backwards responsible, and that's great.

Since most of us don't carry around a calibrated, police-quality breathalizer, I'll stick with my view that none is safest, but you certainly have found a system that works for you.

Sure, you won't drink and carry, but you'll do what scooby does and carry? Or are you refering to the current (nuetered) scooby?

Everything I Know About Concealed Carry I Learned From Scooby Doo

• Be very reluctant to go into scary places.
• When you see something scary, run!
• Bring a friend to watch your back.
• Always try to get a clue.
• Take time to stop for a snack.

As, respectfully, neither do I.

The question we each have to answer is a pretty serious one, with lots of consequences: how much am I willing to let carrying or not carrying run my life? How much am I willing to let it change my life?

Think it through, carefully; you get to live with your own decisions.

There are some things I've had to choose to do -- giving up being confrontational in public, except when I've very carefully weighed the issues and made a conscious choice, for one. Being willing to tell an obnoxious, numb-brained doofus to just go away, for another.

How about going out for a nice dinner with my wife? I don't have to give up excessive drinking and driving -- my rules for having wine with dinner and subsequently driving are strict, and far moreso than is required by law, but even when I am the designated driver, I do like a nice glass of wine with dinner.

Should I give that up because I carry? Or should I give up my ability to protect myself because I've decided that I'm going to enjoy a glass of Cabernet with a steak? Sure, I've heard it, and you have, too -- something like "if you get into a lethal force situation, and you've even had that one glass of wine, the prosecutor is going to make mincemeat out of you." Let's assume that that's true. (I think it's likely a pretty bogus argument, but leave that aside.) How much should I change my life because of such an unlikely possibility?

Each of us gets to make our own decisions.