| Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive http://twincitiescarry.com/forum/ |
|
| Do all permit classes ban carry? http://twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13443 |
Page 2 of 3 |
| Author: | jdege [ Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do all permit classes ban carry? |
Traveler wrote: Paying my fee does not entitle me to set the rules nor the curriculum. That you paid the fee implies that you consented to abide by the rules. If you don't like the rules imposed by one instructor, pick another. |
|
| Author: | Lenny7 [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do all permit classes ban carry? |
I edited my first posted to add a smiley. Actually I wouldn't break their rules...I'd find a different instructor. I find the concept of a carry instructor not allowing you to carry in class if you have a permit rather ironic. Maybe you should posted which instructors have this rule here in the "Posted Victim Disarmament Zones" section. 
|
|
| Author: | cobb [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do all permit classes ban carry? |
Lenny7 wrote: Actually I wouldn't break their rules...I'd find a different instructor. I find the concept of a carry instructor not allowing you to carry in class if you have a permit rather ironic. I agree. As mentioned, I do not ban carry in my permit class, but I do ban show and tell. |
|
| Author: | diskdoctr@yahoo.com [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do all permit classes ban carry? |
Lenny7 wrote: I edited my first posted to add a smiley. Actually I wouldn't break their rules...I'd find a different instructor. I find the concept of a carry instructor not allowing you to carry in class if you have a permit rather ironic. Maybe you should posted which instructors have this rule here in the "Posted Victim Disarmament Zones" section. I don't find it ironic at all. It is simply about safety... You don't know who has enrolled in a class, and you certainly don't know if they will be safe... That is all it is... Find a different instructor if you feel the need but, you must be aware that this may be a requirement of insurance more than instructor preference. Remember, there are warnings printed on lawn mowers to "not put hands or feet under a running mower". If we have to put out warnings like that,,,Oooh let's see...Unsafe handling of a loaded firearm in a classroom.....DUH!! |
|
| Author: | Lenny7 [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do all permit classes ban carry? |
diskdoctr@yahoo.com wrote: I don't find it ironic at all. It is simply about safety... You don't know who has enrolled in a class, and you certainly don't know if they will be safe... We trust permit holders to carry in banks, stores, parks, and churches, but we can't trust them in a carry permit class. Not only that, but some carry instructors who are teaching us how to be safe, responsible permit holders don't trust the results of their own system. It makes perfect sense to me. I'm not talking about anybody carrying in class, but about permit holders carrying. Now Cobb's rule about no show & tell makes perfect sense. I have no problem with that. We post here all the time criticizing businesses that are posted. There's even an entire section devoted to it. I'm just being consistent in my disdain for such practices. You say "You don't know who has enrolled in class". I say that's a better argument TO carry than not to carry. |
|
| Author: | diskdoctr@yahoo.com [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do all permit classes ban carry? |
Lenny7 wrote: diskdoctr@yahoo.com wrote: I don't find it ironic at all. It is simply about safety... You don't know who has enrolled in a class, and you certainly don't know if they will be safe... We trust permit holders to carry in banks, stores, parks, and churches, but we can't trust them in a carry permit class. Not only that, but some carry instructors who are teaching us how to be safe, responsible permit holders don't trust the results of their own system. It makes perfect sense to me. I'm not talking about anybody carrying in class, but about permit holders carrying. Now Cobb's rule about no show & tell makes perfect sense. I have no problem with that. We post here all the time criticizing businesses that are posted. There's even an entire section devoted to it. I'm just being consistent in my disdain for such practices. You say "You don't know who has enrolled in class". I say that's a better argument TO carry than not to carry. I can agree to a point.. Permit holders, sure...But the ones who aren't and likely have not taken a class......This is about the classroom, not the range.. Sorry if this is tough. but in reality...You don't need your weapon in the classroom...Now if this is an advanced defensive pistol class that would be another story...And all the students would be permit holders |
|
| Author: | mrokern [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do all permit classes ban carry? |
diskdoctr@yahoo.com wrote: I can agree to a point.. Permit holders, sure...But the ones who aren't and likely have not taken a class......This is about the classroom, not the range.. Sorry if this is tough. but in reality...You don't need your weapon in the classroom...Now if this is an advanced defensive pistol class that would be another story...And all the students would be permit holders I'm never without mine unless prohibited by law. It's not about where I "need" it. If I knew where I'd need it, I wouldn't need it. -Mark |
|
| Author: | diskdoctr@yahoo.com [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do all permit classes ban carry? |
I'm never without mine unless prohibited by law. It's not about where I "need" it. If I knew where I'd need it, I wouldn't need it. -Mark[/quote] Well said Mark |
|
| Author: | Lenny7 [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do all permit classes ban carry? |
diskdoctr@yahoo.com wrote: I can agree to a point.. Permit holders, sure...But the ones who aren't and likely have not taken a class......This is about the classroom, not the range.. Sorry if this is tough. but in reality...You don't need your weapon in the classroom...Now if this is an advanced defensive pistol class that would be another story...And all the students would be permit holders The rest of us are only talking about permit holders not being allowed to carry. It should go without saying that folks without permits shouldn't be carrying (from a legal standpoint, not from a philosophical standpoint). From the original post: Quote: Are there some instructors out there that have insurance that allows permit holders to carry to the classroom, and if so are you paying more to do so? |
|
| Author: | diskdoctr@yahoo.com [ Sat Jul 04, 2009 7:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do all permit classes ban carry? |
Lenny7 wrote: diskdoctr@yahoo.com wrote: I can agree to a point.. Permit holders, sure...But the ones who aren't and likely have not taken a class......This is about the classroom, not the range.. Sorry if this is tough. but in reality...You don't need your weapon in the classroom...Now if this is an advanced defensive pistol class that would be another story...And all the students would be permit holders The rest of us are only talking about permit holders not being allowed to carry. It should go without saying that folks without permits shouldn't be carrying (from a legal standpoint, not from a philosophical standpoint). From the original post: Quote: Are there some instructors out there that have insurance that allows permit holders to carry to the classroom, and if so are you paying more to do so? My apologies, I was reading something else into it I guess.....Still see no reason to carry in the classroom, but that is your choice afterall |
|
| Author: | cobb [ Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do all permit classes ban carry? |
Lenny7 wrote: diskdoctr@yahoo.com wrote: I can agree to a point.. Permit holders, sure...But the ones who aren't and likely have not taken a class...... The rest of us are only talking about permit holders not being allowed to carry. It should go without saying that folks without permits shouldn't be carrying (from a legal standpoint, not from a philosophical standpoint). That was my first impression, students carrying that do not have permits, which I would not allow. |
|
| Author: | brent375hh [ Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do all permit classes ban carry? |
My point was simple. If instructor's insurance states that they can't have loaded hanguns onsite, even in the form of a permit holder, the same instructor should not be making any negative comments about a business that may be doing so for the same reason. If an instructor does not want an loaded guns in his/her class, then they are teaching a broken system that they have no faith in. If the instructor thinks you are a danger, and are teaching you as a renewal they must question their own teaching. If you are a renewal from someone else, they don't have faith in the system in general. If they don't think the average permit holder to be safe, who does? Why worry about Brits or National Camera when your own side is not convinced? Lastly, to the faction that thinks you don't need to carry your pistol to a classroom, what trips would you take in your car that you really don't need to wear a seatbelt for? I have never actually needed a spare tire or fire extiguisher, but I have both. The only time I actually needed my gun was when I did not think I needed it, but I was still wearing it from earlier in the day and had not been home yet to store it in the fall of 1983. |
|
| Author: | Dick Unger [ Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do all permit classes ban carry? |
A gun class is sort of like a trip to a range, or a gunstore, or a gunsmith, or even a hunting trip. Usually, everyone starts with an unloaded weapon. Even at a class, you might want or need to handle your carry weapon if you try out a holster or carry system, etc. It's simply easier for instructors if they can assume weapons are going to be unleaded. It's hard to know what direction the group might go. If I were an instructor i'd probably carry unloaded, so i could use my guns as a prop. I might want to use someone else's gun as an example, or have a student demonstrate something. It's really not a philosophical issue in a gun class. It's when the activity has nothing to do with guns, like a college class, that having to disarm is a philosophical issue. |
|
| Author: | Lenny7 [ Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do all permit classes ban carry? |
Dick Unger wrote: It's simply easier for instructors if they can assume weapons are going to be unleaded. See Rule No. 1. |
|
| Author: | Dick Unger [ Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do all permit classes ban carry? |
Lenny7 wrote: Dick Unger wrote: It's simply easier for instructors if they can assume weapons are going to be unleaded. See Rule No. 1. Whose 'Rule 1"? |
|
| Page 2 of 3 | All times are UTC - 6 hours |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|