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Andrew Rothman
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:58 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am Posts: 6767 Location: Twin Cities
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I got a VERY cooperative response talking today with the operations manager of the state park system.
He says hearing from an instructor certifying organization gives him a reason to push for a quick decision. ("Quick," in governmentese, means a matter of four to six weeks, of course.)
I'm sending him the email as above. Please, everyone else, hold off. I think we can win this one quietly and with honey, not vinegar.
_________________ * NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.
Last edited by Andrew Rothman on Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pakrat
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:02 pm |
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Forum Moderator/<br>AV Geek |
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:56 am Posts: 2422 Location: Hopkins, MN
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bah! I just bought a bottle of vinegar. The big one too!
_________________ Minnesota Permit to Carry Instructor; Utah Certified CFP Instructor
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ttousi
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:25 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:20 am Posts: 3311 Location: St. Paul, MN.
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I would emphasize the fact that it is more than 1 instructor cert org. My guess is a poll would show 100% support or close to it.
_________________ http://is.gd/37LKr
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chinakay
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:27 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:42 am Posts: 259 Location: SW metro
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Pakrat wrote: bah! I just bought a bottle of vinegar. The big one too!
I have a *very* interesting vinaigrette recipe you can use it for.
_________________ Ya can't miss fast enough to win.
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Andrew Rothman
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:38 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am Posts: 6767 Location: Twin Cities
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:25 pm |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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Andrew Rothman wrote: ttousi wrote: I would emphasize the fact that it is more than 1 instructor cert org. My guess is a poll would show 100% support or close to it. Of course. We should talk about having an association of instructor cert orgs. That sounds like a great idea, to me.
_________________ Just a guy.
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durbin6
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Post subject: Association Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:51 am |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:34 pm Posts: 216 Location: Hutchinson, MN
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Andrew Rothman wrote: ttousi wrote: I would emphasize the fact that it is more than 1 instructor cert org. My guess is a poll would show 100% support or close to it. Of course. We should talk about having an association of instructor cert orgs.
I think we are already doing that informally here in the forum. Of course it would be nice to create an offical Certified Instructor Organization complete with membership and meetings and such. I think we will have much more power organized than we do alone.
_________________ JD
DDHT
Occam's Razor:
one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything.
Visit us at www.ddht.us
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joelr
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Post subject: Re: Association Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:03 am |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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durbin6 wrote: Andrew Rothman wrote: ttousi wrote: I would emphasize the fact that it is more than 1 instructor cert org. My guess is a poll would show 100% support or close to it. Of course. We should talk about having an association of instructor cert orgs. I think we are already doing that informally here in the forum. Of course it would be nice to create an offical Certified Instructor Organization complete with membership and meetings and such. I think we will have much more power organized than we do alone.
I think so, too.
Given the number of certified instructor organizations that have already informally signed on, I think the idea is good to go, although there's obviously some next steps.
And for that, I think a new topic is in order...
_________________ Just a guy.
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dancar
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Post subject: State Parks covered under definition of Public Places Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:24 pm |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:48 am Posts: 121 Location: St. Louis Park, MN
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Why all the emphasis on the "Exclusivity" clause? I know the DNR posted a previous response in which they referred to that clause, but truthfully, that clause prohibits setting up other procedures. Rather than let them frame the discussion, let's just point out that Subd 1. states where we can carry: "... public place, as defined in section 624.7181, subdivision 1, paragraph (c)," Go to that section and voila, you have included State Parks. That to me would seem a much stronger argument to make to the DPS or DNR. I would avoid the whole exclusivity thing altogether.
Does anyone agree?
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Pakrat
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:54 am |
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Forum Moderator/<br>AV Geek |
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:56 am Posts: 2422 Location: Hopkins, MN
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I see what you are saying. What they are probably thinking is, the DNR controls natural resources and can make up rules for anything that falls under their umbrella. Thus, they would likely argue it's not technically a public place. (example- if they charge admission, is it a public place?).
So, the exclusivity clause says no governmental agency can touch this. Guaranteeing our right to carry anywhere that's not specifically excluded.
_________________ Minnesota Permit to Carry Instructor; Utah Certified CFP Instructor
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Srigs
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:37 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:40 am Posts: 3752 Location: East Suburbs
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Pakrat wrote: I see what you are saying. What they are probably thinking is, the DNR controls natural resources and can make up rules for anything that falls under their umbrella. Thus, they would likely argue it's not technically a public place. (example- if they charge admission, is it a public place?).
So, the exclusivity clause says no governmental agency can touch this. Guaranteeing our right to carry anywhere that's not specifically excluded.
The DNR does get state funds to help pay for the State Parks regardless if I go to a park or not. So they are public place because they accept funds from the MN general fund! Seems clear to me...
_________________ Srigs
Side Guard Holsters
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton
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Pakrat
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:24 pm |
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Forum Moderator/<br>AV Geek |
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:56 am Posts: 2422 Location: Hopkins, MN
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Srigs wrote: Seems clear to me...
But does it seem clear to them?
Hit them with the public place section, if they fight it then hit them with the preemption.
_________________ Minnesota Permit to Carry Instructor; Utah Certified CFP Instructor
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durbin6
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Post subject: Any follow up yet Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:05 am |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:34 pm Posts: 216 Location: Hutchinson, MN
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Andrew, it has been almost a month since you spoke to your contact at the DNR, have you had a chance to bring this issue up with him/her again? I know they are probably quite busy this time of year trying to get their ELS system to work but it never hurts to inquire politely.
_________________ JD
DDHT
Occam's Razor:
one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything.
Visit us at www.ddht.us
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Andrew Rothman
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:35 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am Posts: 6767 Location: Twin Cities
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Steelheart
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:48 pm |
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:01 am Posts: 188 Location: south central Minnesota
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Thanks for the great work!
Steelheart
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