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 Mall of America feeble posting 
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 Post subject: Mall of America feeble posting
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 7:39 pm 
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I know you all are fully aware that it's posted as I've seen reference to it in other threads but put it here in it's own thread for a couple of reasons:

1.) If you come in from the parking lot it's not visible from the entrance. You can't see it until you get into the first set of doors. Then it's on the side wall in one of those digital advertising signs and if I remember correctly the verbiage is incorrect. Anyone else remember this?

2.) If they take 10s of millions in taxpayer money to expand do they lose their right to legally post?


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 8:10 pm 
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They are a landlord so the Mall cannot legally post anyway.

Those signs have no legal validity.

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 9:08 pm 
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They have a fair amount of roving security. If one detects you carrying can they legitimately ask you to leave and make trouble for you by way of the $25 fine?


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 9:46 pm 
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Inebrius wrote:
They have a fair amount of roving security. If one detects you carrying can they legitimately ask you to leave and make trouble for you by way of the $25 fine?


The Law

Subd. 17. Posting; trespass. (a) A person carrying a
firearm on or about his or her person or clothes under a permit
or otherwise who remains at a private establishment knowing that
the operator of the establishment or its agent has made a
reasonable request that firearms not be brought into the
establishment may be ordered to leave the premises. A person
who fails to leave when so requested is guilty of a petty
misdemeanor. The fine for a first offense must not exceed $25.
Notwithstanding section 609.531, a firearm carried in violation
of this subdivision is not subject to forfeiture.

(b) As used in this subdivision, the terms in this
paragraph have the meanings given.

(1) "Reasonable request" means a request made under the
following circumstances:

(i) the requester has prominently posted a conspicuous sign
at every entrance to the establishment containing the following
language: "(INDICATE IDENTITY OF OPERATOR) BANS GUNS IN THESE
PREMISES."; or

(ii) the requester or the requester's agent personally
informs the person that guns are prohibited in the premises and
demands compliance.

(2) "Prominently" means readily visible and within four
feet laterally of the entrance with the bottom of the sign at a
height of four to six feet above the floor.

(3) "Conspicuous" means lettering in black arial typeface
at least 1-1/2 inches in height against a bright contrasting
background that is at least 187 square inches in area.

(4) "Private establishment" means a building, structure, or
portion thereof that is owned, leased, controlled, or operated
by a nongovernmental entity for a nongovernmental purpose.

(c) The owner or operator of a private establishment may
not prohibit the lawful carry or possession of firearms in a
parking facility or parking area.

(d) This subdivision does not apply to private residences.
The lawful possessor of a private residence may prohibit
firearms, and provide notice thereof, in any lawful manner.

(e) A landlord may not restrict the lawful carry or
possession of firearms by tenants or their guests.

(f) Notwithstanding any inconsistent provisions in section
609.605, this subdivision sets forth the exclusive criteria to
notify a permit holder when otherwise lawful firearm possession
is not allowed in a private establishment and sets forth the
exclusive penalty for such activity.

(g) This subdivision does not apply to:

(1) an active licensed peace officer; or

(2) a security guard acting in the course and scope of
employment.


If they ask you to leave.....LEAVE!!

If not..............we'll all come around and slap you in the forehead :twisted: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 9:48 pm 
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Inebrius wrote:
They have a fair amount of roving security. If one detects you carrying can they legitimately ask you to leave and make trouble for you by way of the $25 fine?


If you leave when verbally requested to do so, there is no offense. Just say "OK, Mr. Security Guard" and walk out the nearest door.


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 10:27 pm 
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Just out of spite, I carry more guns when I go to the MOA. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 7:54 am 
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Location: Minneapolis
I understand the law but I guess I should have worded it differently. Do they understand the law and are their guards instructed to escort Permit to Carry holders to the nearest exit if detected? In other words are the guards instructed to break the law? If they are breaking the law is there a way to force them to comply?

As you point out they are a landlord and don't have the legal right to ban guns so do they have the legal right to ask you to leave because of it. I know they can ask you to leave but this would seem to be one of those grey areas.

I assume if I were asked to leave and didn't the police responding to the call would act on behalf of the MOA rather than adhere closely to the law as they can simply state they asked me to leave for other reasons.

I make it to MOA about once a year if that so it's not high on my agenda to mess around with this. I'm just bringing this all up out of curiosity. Forgive me if I'm reviving a dead horse...


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 8:01 am 
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My understanding would be that the MOA is the landlord, therefore the MOA posting is unenforceable.


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 8:29 am 
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 10:48 am 
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Location: Lakeville
Inebrius wrote:
As you point out they are a landlord and don't have the legal right to ban guns so do they have the legal right to ask you to leave because of it. I know they can ask you to leave but this would seem to be one of those grey areas.


This comes up way too often.. If you really want to pursue it, think of the amount of political pull they have, and the amount of money they have to spend on lawyers.. then think of the law being changed allowing landlords to post, due to the 2 things mentioned earlier..

Let a sleeping dog lie.. I'd rather do that, than risk the law being changed.

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