And it would probably depend on your ability to demonstrate that retreat would be more dangerous to a jury. Basically can you demonstrate yourself to be a pathetic hollow shell of a man?

It probably goes without saying that ego has no place in a self-defense situation....only self-preservation.

I had the carry class last week and a similiar scenario came up.
Because I ripped my achilles, I can't walk very fast.
My story would be that I was near the back of the store, but going out the back exit would increase my chance of being shot. Since shots were already fired, I am not taking unreasonable chances. A good instructor once said: As the defendant, you don't need to convince everyone in the Grand Jury, only get a few others to agree your actions were reasonable.

It is good to talk through some "what if" scenarios, but remember that EVERY situation will be different and you will probably not have all the facts.
Remember the guy who was getting car-jacked at gunpoint, took the gun away from the attacker [cause its so easy ] and then was shot by police who thought he was the perp because he now had the gun pointed at the bad guy?
Bad stuff happens in a gunfight, make REALLY sure you want to intervene before you do.

Lethal force is allowed in defense of another [does not need to be a relative] but is often dicey.

Sit in the lotus position and meditate upon this mantra:

"I am not a cop."

After internalizing this message, light incense, unleash patchoulli oil, cross legs the other way, and meditate with this message as The Thing:

"This ain't Hollywood."

I believe that the phrase cops like to use for made-for-Hollywood interventions like this is "tactically untenable." If you were a cop, you would consider trying to stop an armed robbery without something like 4:1 superiority in numbers (with people who have trained together and who are in constant communication with each other) to be tactically untenable and therefore a candidate for a "tactical disengagement," i.e. a retreat.

Save the hero shit for the guy with the MP5 mowing down kids at the amusement attraction formerly known as Camp Snoopy. Anything less isn't worth it.

I've known cops, I've known feds, and even the paranoid ones who carry every living minute won't intervene in someone else's fight on their day off.

You shouldn't either.

The important thing to remember is that justice comes to the doers in the end. If they don't get busted or killed on this crime, they will on the next one, or the next, or one after that which they didn't actually do themselves. And even if it doesn't, without getting into an argument over theology, let's just say that they'll ultimately have to answer to someone else, or at least live with who they are.

Does he have to have an MP5?

What if someone were carrying a pistol AND a Tazer (I just so happen to have both)?. In other words, if one is forced to defend oneself and uses the firearm rather than the "lesser" weapon, what legal liability does one have since they had ine their posession a "lesser" weapon?

Would the lesser force have been sufficient to stop the attack? In a one on one, the jury might have problems with your health. If your defensive situation involved multiple attackers and the tasers slow reload time would get you killed, you'd probably be okay. The thing to remember is, it will be a jury & juries are more fickle than my 7th grade girlfriend was.

That is something you would assert through your attorney with expert witnesses and a lot of examples for the jury IMnsHO.

Great thread for a refresher on use of force-- Thanks folks!

Anyone know the legal definition of "abode"? Does it include say, a second home? cabin? camper? owned commercial space? an office?

abode = where you keep your boxers and toothbrush.


(granted I used to keep a toothbrush and toothpaste at the office, along with a cooking pot, bowl, mug, spatula, spoon and assorted dry goods)

Or according to some Democrat judges, the park bench that you sleep on.

It's where you live, even for one day. Your house, apartment, hotel room, camping tent, or RV (while parked).

On the other hand, it is not a place where you are having a sleepover (your girlfriend's, your folks', your kids') -- that's their abode.

It's not your garage, your yard, your porch -- just the living portion of your abode.

It's not your office.

Check out http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/vi ... hp?t=10564 for why you should not get involved unless you <I>absolutely</i> know what is going on . . .

To funny - but true--