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Parking Lot Rage...
http://twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10942		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  Ronin069 [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 6:38 am ]
Post subject:  Parking Lot Rage...
I just got back into town and wanted to type this out - if for no other reason then to replay the events that unfolded scene by scene for my own mental health -

Friday (day after Thanksgiving) I had planned on meeting a friend for breakfast at Perkins, and like everyone else in the city we all drove separate cars. I spent nearly 15 minutes circling the lot and finally found a family exiting the building and working their way to a vehicle nearby where I was treading water waiting for a spot - just as they backed out, a guy with his wife came from around the corner and swooped into the spot - based on the way this parking lot is set up it is IMPOSSIBLE for him not to have noticed me sitting there with my blinker on waiting for the spot.

I gave a quick honk of the horn and neither he nor his wife looked up - which irritated me a bit as it only confirmed that they were being a-holes and knowing taking the spot. Out of nowhere comes another guy with his wife in a mini-van and he gets out of the van and begins to swear at the first mini-van guy for stealing "his" spot! Words are exchanged and I am watiching all of this unfold like a tv show. The first couple attempt to ignore this guy which only pissed him off even more - for a moment it really seemed like angry guy #2 was going to jump parking-spot stealer #1. Which brings me to the following question. Angry guy was MUCH bigger and aggressive than guy #1 and unless guy#1 was a humble MMA master he was going to get hurt bad.

1) Having witnessed this whole thing, what if any duty/responsibility do I have to guy #1?

2) I was carrying my SIG .40 at the time - how does this factor in?

3) All of this happened so quickly that my thought at the time was had this come to blows I would have "from within my truck" rolled my windows down and yelled to the a-hole to STOP - or something like that. Assuming I could get his attention I would have informed him that I was a permit carrier that that he needed to leave the scene or I would hold him for the police.

Wow, forgive the long post. This is as close as I have ever come to even consider having to pull my weapon - I am very interested in your opinions here and to see what I "should have done"...
Author:  rtk [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:14 am ]
Post subject: 
1. It wasn't your problem.
2. Carry in good health as we all should. It wasn't your problem.
3. If they started scrapping, call 911 from the comfort of your vehicle and head west...It wasn't your problem.

YMMV
Author:  crshooter [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:47 am ]
Post subject: 
rtk wrote:
1. It wasn't your problem.
2. Carry in good health as we all should. It wasn't your problem.
3. If they started scrapping, call 911 from the comfort of your vehicle and head west...It wasn't your problem.

YMMV


+1
Author:  jaysong [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:57 am ]
Post subject: 
crshooter wrote:
rtk wrote:
1. It wasn't your problem.
2. Carry in good health as we all should. It wasn't your problem.
3. If they started scrapping, call 911 from the comfort of your vehicle and head west...It wasn't your problem.

YMMV


+1


+10
Author:  Ronin069 [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:26 am ]
Post subject: 
...not your problem, I know. But I am really struggling with this one;

1) am I expected to sit in my truck and watch some douche-bag beat a guy to a pulp and do nothing to help him?

2) What if it was a woman who was getting assulted? Would that change the minds of those that have already "+1'ed?".

...assuming that I am going to see the following answers:

1- Yes - or drive away and don't watch
2- You are taking a huge legal risk

...then what a sad and f-ed up world we live in...sigh...I miss Mayberry.
Author:  Rip Van Winkle [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
1- Yes - or drive away and don't watch
2- You are taking a huge legal risk

Are you willing to bet everything, including your freedom that there is no previous history between these two?

Quote:
...then what a sad and f-ed up world we live in...sigh...I miss Mayberry.

Agreed.
Author:  crshooter [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:02 am ]
Post subject: 
Maybe I'm not thinking it all the way through; but, does the fact your a permit holder have to come into play?
What would you do in the same situation if you were not armed?
Author:  CraigJS [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:09 am ]
Post subject: 
1. Enjoy the show (be glad it isn't you).
2. If it gets too bad call the police, and be a good witness.

Short of the AH#2 capping AH#1, you don't have any more info on the situation then your 30 second "show". Is it worth your potential problems to do other than #2 above?
A PCP doesn't make you responsible for everyones safety. Perhaps AH #1 deserves what AH #2 was going to give him.... Again see # 1 above.
I also saw LOTS of crazy people doing LOTS of stupid stuff in cars Friday.
Be safe, CraigJS
Author:  lumbering.buffalo [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:16 am ]
Post subject: 
ronin069 wrote:
...not your problem, I know. But I am really struggling with this one;

1) am I expected to sit in my truck and watch some douche-bag beat a guy to a pulp and do nothing to help him?.
He brought it upon himself when he stole the parking spot. There are consequences for your actions. Call 911, be a good witness and let the police handle it. Big guy would have been charged with assault. It is not a crime to be a self-centered horse's read-end.

Quote:
2) What if it was a woman who was getting assulted? Would that change the minds of those that have already "+1'ed?".
Was she the parking lot stealer? If so see the answer to # 1. If not, how much self-defense insurance do you have? Can you afford a lawyer? This is Minnesota; white knights are not welcome.

Quote:
...assuming that I am going to see the following ans...then what a sad and f-ed up world we live in...sigh...I miss Mayberry
Your carry permit does not entitle you to right wrongs or to save wrong-doers from themselves. Nor does it entitle you to do wrong without consequences. If anything it allows protection when attacked for doing right or neutral things. It also constrains you from getting involved in matters that do not directly affect you or your family.
Author:  someone1980 [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:40 am ]
Post subject: 
ronin069 wrote:
...then what a sad and f-ed up world we live in...sigh...I miss Mayberry.


Yup. You must have missed the memo. Yesterday a man was killed at a Walmart because people wanted to save a little bit of money. And if you haven't seen the fight at Walmart over the xboxs well you are missing the pinnacle of western civilization.

Yes I am also disgusted.
Author:  Magnum Mikie [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:03 am ]
Post subject: 
So Ronin, please finish the story. Did AH#2 beat the sh*t out of AH#1? Enquiring minds want to know! 8)
Author:  Macx [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:11 am ]
Post subject: 
My first inclination is that jerk #1 stole the spot you were waiting for & if some jerk #2 percieved that #1 stole it from him (being unaware of you) then that is Karma and that is swell. There are a lot of people in the world that need a good beating, though I have elected to be a reluctant participant . . . cops arrest people & break up fights, jerk #2's beat people and get arrested. I am neither a cop nor a jerk #2.

Remembering that you are carrying is good & when in a situation like that becoming aware that you have a Sig .40 on your hip, is a good time to repeat this matra "I am a reluctant participant, what a reluctant participants role, I am reluctant".

Quote:
Assuming I could get his attention I would have informed him that I was a permit carrier that that he needed to leave the scene or I would hold him for the police.
Absolutely not. You have no desire to hold him for the police, that'd probably involve drawing and what then, if he decided to walk off? Do you fire a warning shot? Shoot him in the leg? Things can only escalate to really expensive. What if Jerk #2 is a Landon Beard style cop? It isn't like there is only one Landon Beard running around the Twin Cities.
Author:  someone1980 [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Macx wrote:
Quote:
Assuming I could get his attention I would have informed him that I was a permit carrier that that he needed to leave the scene or I would hold him for the police.
Absolutely not. You have no desire to hold him for the police, that'd probably involve drawing and what then, if he decided to walk off? Do you fire a warning shot? Shoot him in the leg? Things can only escalate to really expensive. What if Jerk #2 is a Landon Beard style cop? It isn't like there is only one Landon Beard running around the Twin Cities.


Shooting while you have other options, your life is not in immediate danger, etc. would be a *REALLY BAD IDEA*.

What if a cop driving by sees you have drawn on someone and are yelling at them? How do you think that is going to go?
Author:  Ronin069 [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:48 am ]
Post subject: 
Magnum Mikie wrote:
So Ronin, please finish the story. Did AH#2 beat the sh*t out of AH#1? Enquiring minds want to know! 8)


...there was not battle royal. The wife of AH#2 began giving her unnecessarily outraged hubby an ass-chewing and that immediately de-escalated the situation...he left in a huff...

with that said...note to self: Call the cops, (shouldn't take long, I'm at a Perkins!) sit back, watch the show, and be a good witness.

Thanks all. I think this has been mentioned before, but we really should have a dedicated thread to discuss these real-time scenarios - :idea:
Author:  gunflint [ Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Maybe a good ass kicking would give AH#1 a good lesson in parking lot ethics.
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