Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 3824: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/bbcode.php:483)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 3826: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/bbcode.php:483)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 3827: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/bbcode.php:483)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 3828: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/bbcode.php:483)
Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive • View topic - "Gun" story on KSTP tonight 12-30-08
 
  Index  •  FAQ  •  Search  

It is currently Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:56 am

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 139 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10  Next
 "Gun" story on KSTP tonight 12-30-08 
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:24 pm 
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:48 pm
Posts: 140
atripp wrote:
I seem to remember someone shooting up a city council meeting earlier this year, somewhere like Missouri or something. Awesome, lets ban law abiding citizens from carrying to a city council meeting so they cant protect themselves or others from criminals who decide to not follow the signs.


You mean the one that happened at the Morrison County board meeting in Little Falls?

If I was an elected official, I'd be carrying too.

I'm curious as to how this all came about - how did anyone know he was carrying and why did he allow it to get to that point? Listening to those couple interviewed that's just another reason why when I carry, most of the time nobody else will ever need to know - people just seem to focus on the firearm, rather than the relevant issue at hand.

Who cares if he has a gun? I'm sure that the Sheriff, deputies, and even city police officers show up to council meetings from time to time...and they...have guns too!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:37 pm 
Senior Member

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:03 am
Posts: 227
In terms of activism...and state deficits...I think Minnesota ought to offer First Ammendment and Second Ammendment license plates.
The fees could simply go to the general fund or be dedicated.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:43 pm 
The Man
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am
Posts: 7970
Location: Minneapolis MN
Fiasco, I'm with you on the whole notion of the marketing arm. Heck, I even know a pro writer (me) who would be willing to work fulltime on such a gig; it'd be a blast. And, honestly, I think it'd easily be worth, say, $100K to the movement as a whole to have me writing agitprop fulltime. (Forgetting for a moment how irritated the other folks who -- perhaps more or less justifiably -- thought they deserved the gig more would feel, and how much damage that would do.)

Right now, here on the Forum, we have just over three hundred people with three dozen or more posts, and, very optimistically, 2/3 that many lurkers. What are the chances that active Forum members are willing to cough up, say, $200/year on average for that sort of thing? (I'm not asking; that'd be a lot to ask, and I'd have to justify spending it on me being a better choice than giving that money to GOCRA, say; I'm not sure that I can and am sure that I don't want to try for the sake of an exercise.)

_________________
Just a guy.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:20 pm 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:17 pm
Posts: 351
Location: west 'burbs
(Drifting back) I agree about city councils getting way out of hand. I have seen two different people have their real estate needlesly re-zoned, effectivley stripping over $100K of value from their property. Another one of my favorites is the warrantless searches for illegal sump pump discharge. The ineptitude and tax / spend attitude at the local level mimics the county state and feds except at the local it is a little more in your face. I think the city council members will continue to make stupid decisions and will continue to be targets warranting still more "$ECURITY"

_________________
For English, press 1


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:51 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:38 am
Posts: 43
Location: Crystal, MN
Andrew Rothman wrote:
Fiasco, your opinion is welcome (and worth what we paid for it :)).

That said, there is something to be said for not "poking the bear."

Forcing a confrontation is sometimes a good idea, and sometimes not.

Right now, forcing a confrontation on an issue WE ALREADY WON is a bad idea. We have nothing to gain and everything to lose.


Wow! I really disagree.

You may want to reconsider the idea that "WE ALREADY WON". If you think for a moment that there is any single right that is not constantly under attack, especially as it relates to the 2nd ammendment, you may be too comfortable and satisfied with past success to the detriment of the gains achieved in that success.

We have nothing to gain by opposing attempts by the League of Minnesota Cities to have the carry law modified to prohibit carry on city property? What do we have to lose by educating the public on the inherent benefit to public safety by allowing American citizens to arm themselves? Ignoring ignorant media reports or other tangible efforts by the opposition are NOT going to prevent the other side from being increasingly proactive and eventually succesful.

I am not saying we should start marching on city hall with "Nickel Plated BFRs. I believe those types of events are counterproductive to educating a leery public. This is why I'm proposing focused marketing efforts (I'll respond to Joel's last post later).

I have little doubt that there will be attempts to chip away at what I admit is one of the best carry laws in the country. This will happen as soon as the next session. Even if you don't think they will win, it is a battle that must be fought.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:04 pm 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:24 pm
Posts: 471
Location: 12 miles east of Lake Wobegon
One of the attributes of the NRA is that, since Wayne LaPierre, the public communications have favored mobilizing the base over presenting a positive image to the general public. Since the competing organizations at the national level differentiate themselves mainly by being solely gun-rights organizations and by having less willingness to compromise on legislation, there is no one left to be a positive public face for defensive gun use, or gun owners in general, or the carry community in particular.

I think the problem would be best solved through internal change within the NRA to allow it to portray a more sophisticated and positive public image rather than playing scope-of-conflict games (i.e. charging up the base all the time). And it is a national problem, not a local one. The NRA has marketing resources, and they choose to deploy them in a particular way.

That said, gun owners will lose at the local level much of the time, and we have to depend upon state preemption to achieve enough uniformity to be able to carry without inadvertent violations of the law. There are local governments that are anti-gun and there always will be. In Northfield there are signs in public buildings that say "Guns are not welcome on city of Northfield property." No matter what we do, the city council there is going to be anti-gun and is going to do everything in their power to make it hard for gun owners. I believe that they would outlaw possession within the city limits if it were in their power to do that. State preemption is the only reason people can own guns in Northfield.

Others have also pointed out that media bias is a huge part of the problem. This isn't unique to guns and isn't entirely because of anti-gun sentiments. The media wants a story and stories of people carrying at city council meetings are interesting to their readership. Stories of people carrying for years at a time with no one noticing or caring are, frankly, boring. Combined with the many media outlets that are strongly anti-gun that leaves few opportunities to distribute the correct story even assuming that we know how to tell it.

Bottom line, I think internal change within the NRA, unlikely though that may be, is the only effective way forward, and any money spent in parallel is likely to be wasted.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:04 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am
Posts: 6767
Location: Twin Cities
Fiasco wrote:
Wow! I really disagree.

You may want to reconsider the idea that "WE ALREADY WON". If you think for a moment that there is any single right that is not constantly under attack, especially as it relates to the 2nd ammendment, you may be too comfortable and satisfied with past success to the detriment of the gains achieved in that success.


You should maybe be careful to know what you're talking about.

You wrote:

Quote:
The idea that the carry law is good and we should pick our battles...is, I believe, counterproductive.


Well, you're just dead wrong there. It is ALWAYS necessary to pick your battles. We don't have unlimited time, money, activists or political allies. We HAVE to choose to fight the battles we can win, and be careful not to precipitate ones in which we can only lose.

Where did I learn these lessons? From the experts -- the guys who got the law passed in the first place, and who fight to defend it every year.

Of course we have to fight against attacks, but that's not what this thread is about. Go back and read it again.

Oh, and send me your info. We have a lot of activism work to do this year, and we need committed volunteers like you to put in the long thankless hours to make it happen. :)

_________________
* NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:08 pm 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:24 pm
Posts: 471
Location: 12 miles east of Lake Wobegon
I agree with Fiasco that the law in Minnesota is likely to be amended to death over the coming years, possibly starting with the next session. Supporting the campaigns of pro-gun candidates at the state level is the way to address that, as well as providing unbiased information to those state officeholders who are undecided.

Having an OC presence at a bunch of city council meetings by way of protest would be a mistake, IMO of course.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:12 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:44 pm
Posts: 1525
Location: Isanti, MN
Andrew Rothman wrote:
It is ALWAYS necessary to pick your battles.


And have well thought out "rules of engagement" in order achieve our intended goals.

_________________
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
- Winston Churchill -


WITHOUT LIBERTY THERE IS NO FREEDOM


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:41 pm 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:20 am
Posts: 1317
Location: Racine, MN
As a city council member, I can assure you that not all city governments are anti-gun. I carry my P226 to every meeting and have sold guns to other members of the council. I do believe that the League of Minnesota Cities is anti-gun. I have had words with them in the past and subscribe to their updates to keep an eye on them.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:02 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:04 pm
Posts: 1682
Location: Wright County
I just got off the horn with MitchX3 ( a Greenfield resident) We're cooking up plans. Mitch will be posting on here later (he's away from the interwebs at the moment), as will the gun toting councilman elect.

_________________
Get Off My Lawn.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:39 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:38 am
Posts: 43
Location: Crystal, MN
Andrew Rothman wrote:
Fiasco wrote:
Wow! I really disagree.

You may want to reconsider the idea that "WE ALREADY WON". If you think for a moment that there is any single right that is not constantly under attack, especially as it relates to the 2nd ammendment, you may be too comfortable and satisfied with past success to the detriment of the gains achieved in that success.


You should maybe be careful to know what you're talking about.

You wrote:

Quote:
The idea that the carry law is good and we should pick our battles...is, I believe, counterproductive.


Well, you're just dead wrong there. It is ALWAYS necessary to pick your battles. We don't have unlimited time, money, activists or political allies. We HAVE to choose to fight the battles we can win, and be careful not to precipitate ones in which we can only lose.

Where did I learn these lessons? From the experts -- the guys who got the law passed in the first place, and who fight to defend it every year.

Of course we have to fight against attacks, but that's not what this thread is about. Go back and read it again.

Oh, and send me your info. We have a lot of activism work to do this year, and we need committed volunteers like you to put in the long thankless hours to make it happen. :)


I'll stand by what I said. Do you stand by "WE ALREADY WON"? Don't bother answering that. I'm not that interested in continuing this.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:50 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am
Posts: 6767
Location: Twin Cities
Fiasco wrote:
I'll stand by what I said. Do you stand by "WE ALREADY WON"?


On the issue of carrying in city venues, yes, we already won, so it is unwise to force a confrontation on that issue. Since we already have the right, and there's a Democratic majority in both the House and the Senate, it makes NO SENSE to goad the other side into trying to change the law.

Quote:
Don't bother answering that. I'm not that interested in continuing this.


Sharing an opinion or a rant is easy. Real activism is hard. While I appreciate your political involvement in SD45, if you just came here to bitch, you are wasting your time and ours.

_________________
* NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:01 pm 
Wise Elder
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm
Posts: 2782
Location: St. Paul
MostlyHarmless wrote:
Bottom line, I think internal change within the NRA, unlikely though that may be, is the only effective way forward, and any money spent in parallel is likely to be wasted.


I spent 9 years on the NRA Board of Directors. This isn't going to happen.

Money spent locally is the BEST thing we can do.

I annually contribute well over 150 lawyer-lobbyist hours to GOCRA for which any commercial company would pay $350 per hour. That's over $50,000 worth (just ask my wife). No one who works locally for GOCRA get a dime.

Anyone who wants to contribute to GOCRA can send a check to:

GOCRA
c/o David M. Gross
6420 French Lake Trail
Faribault, MN 55021-7482


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:57 pm 
Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:38 am
Posts: 43
Location: Crystal, MN
Andrew Rothman wrote:
Fiasco wrote:
I'll stand by what I said. Do you stand by "WE ALREADY WON"?


On the issue of carrying in city venues, yes, we already won, so it is unwise to force a confrontation on that issue. Since we already have the right, and there's a Democratic majority in both the House and the Senate, it makes NO SENSE to goad the other side into trying to change the law.

Quote:
Don't bother answering that. I'm not that interested in continuing this.


Sharing an opinion or a rant is easy. Real activism is hard. While I appreciate your political involvement in SD45, if you just came here to bitch, you are wasting your time and ours.


So if anyone disagrees with you, it's bitching? I disagree and don't feel that we have won as evidenced by the intentions of the League of Minnesota Cities. I'm interested in discussing an approach to counteract incredibly effective propaganda. But, apparently, that's not "real activism" whatever the hell that means. But, if the consensus is that I'm bitching, I'll shut up.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 139 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 10  Next

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours


 Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


 
Index  |  FAQ  |  Search

phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group