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 "Gun" story on KSTP tonight 12-30-08 
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 Post subject: Re: Hatred
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:41 pm 
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ex gyrene wrote:
I would not call it hatred, that is a little strong. Hatred requires a bit more passion.

I am kind of disengaged from Greenfield.
No. You are mistaken. Were you really disengaged you would not feel compelled to keep talking about it.

ex gyrene wrote:
The perfect world would have been that the Henn Co Sheriff revoke the conceal carry permit for the offending member.

That didn't happen.
You are awfully quiet on the details of what did happen. Did you report him? Did the sheriff respond?

So far what we have your word (completely unsubstantiated, I might add) that the council member threatened your father. Interestingly, you don't even give details of that, you just keep repeating two things - he threatened, he dropped his gun. Was dropping the gun the threat? Did he drop it while threatening? Really, if you want to present your side, you have to, well, present it.

ex gyrene wrote:
I am very aware of the snowball effect. If greenfield has caused neighboring cities to do a knee jerk reaction and curtail liberties, then that is wrong.
So you knew about it and went to the press anyway? I am tempted to call you and epithet preface with "selfish", but I will hold off until you tell me whether I am reading this correctly.

ex gyrene wrote:
The dude should still not be able to pack at city hall. He is dangerous.
So says you. Got any proof? Heck, got any details besides "he threatened, he dropped"?

ex gyrene wrote:
Fortunately, all of this publicity has probably vastly improved his previous inept gun handling skills and he is likely not a danger.
To restate the stated and the obvious - a dog and pony show in the media is the wrong way to improve someone's gun handling skills. You could have done any number of things that would have been less damaging to the community at large and achieved the same result. I have a hard time believing you don't know that.


ex gyrene wrote:
It is still concerning to me though that he blusters about intimidating an old man.
Where did he do that? Again, details?

ex gyrene wrote:
A mature person would say to the old man, Ted, you have nothing to fear from me. That is what I would do. Heck, someone thought I was being threatening last night and I immediately qualified what I said just to be clear.

No such clarity from this wanna be second amendment hero.
Clarity? That's rich, coming form a guy throwing accusations with no proof...


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 Post subject: Re: You guys are insane
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:45 pm 
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ex gyrene wrote:
You are all 100% correct. It is ok for a council man to bluster tough and threaten a couple of old men.
It's hardly been shown that that happened. In fact, it's pretty clear that the LEO folks didn't think it happened -- he hasn't even been arrested.
Quote:

I am 100% wrong and don't have a thoughtful or honorable cell in my feeble brain.

It is ok to infer that someone who served over 10 years in the USMC and got out as a field grade officer is dishonorable.

It is ok to call that same person treasonous.

maybe I need to carry............to protect myself from the likes of some of you.

CYA


You guys can just believe all of the tripe from the 22 toting council member.

I got better things to do.
I can think of one person who has signed on, maybe, to believe anybody in this. You're mistaking a lack of willingness to take your unproven accusations as demonstrated fact as partisanship in your local feud.

It isn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Binky.357 & jdege
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:46 pm 
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ex gyrene wrote:
This is the appropriate place Binky as the discussion was about the KSTP report.

My response is not mainly about guns. It is about that report.
Then take it up with the reporters; they're not here. Be happy to have them here, but, well, they're not.

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 Post subject: Re: Give me a break
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:52 pm 
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ex gyrene wrote:
You all clearly want to support the councilman. You can have him.
Your crystal ball is defective; you might want to send it in for repair.

Me, I couldn't give a rat's ass about the guy. The only person involved in this with whom I've exchanged words is the very pleasant elderly gentleman who called me to chat earlier today -- and he's not the councilman. I told him -- and I'll tell you -- that if anything anybody has written on this Forum even might constitute evidence of a crime -- say, a terroristic threat -- I wouldn't consider deleting it, and would keep it up and available for law enforcement, should it come to that. Not only wouldn't I ask to quash a warrant, but any LEO type who has earned credibility with me -- say, Donny Chung at the BCA -- would have but to ask for access to the logs, and after running it by my own attorney, I'm sure he'd get it.

Frankly, I doubt that either the BCA or the HCSO wants to get involved in minor unpleasantness that doesn't even come close to anything suggesting the possibility of a crime having been committed, but, hey, if you think somebody's committed a crime against two old men, go ahead and drop a dime on the perp.

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 Post subject: Re: By the way
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:06 pm 
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ex gyrene wrote:
I have not in a single one of my posts even said that I owned a gun. I have said that I don't conceal carry, but if I have a gun or not is not relevant to the right.
So it isn't.

ex gyrene wrote:
If I had a conceal carry permit, only people that know me would know that I carry.............I would conceal it.
First of all, in this state there is no requirement to conceal. Hence, it is a carry permit, not a concealed carry permit. Secondly, if my aunt had some extra dangly bits, she'd be my uncle. What you would do in a hypothetical situation really isn't all that relevant, either.

ex gyrene wrote:
I wouldn't drop it.
Never say never.

ex gyrene wrote:
Dropping a cell phone is often fatal for the phone. Most people have cell phones.
It isn't. Cell phones are probably the sturdiest piece of consumer electronics on the market. Of course, this really isn't relevant to anything either.

ex gyrene wrote:
Dropping a concealed gun? It still makes me wonder.
What does it make you wonder about? Perhaps I can explain.


ex gyrene wrote:
For someone to think that I was being threatening, when I never even said that I owned a gun............is crazy. And I was talking about my father anyway..........I do not live with him.

You probably could hazard a guess about my ownership status, and you would probably be right.

With all of the registration of guns, I would rather not even talk about it. If I had a really cool 22LR pistol from before registration days, I would probably want to keep it a relative secret.

And if I had a bunch of guns, and if someday soon the powers that be demanded that I register them, I may become a truant.

I get the emails about what has happened in Australia with the crime rate. We do need guns.
That all good and fine, but also completely irrelevant. If you are trying to build some credibility as a supporter of the 2nd Amendment, this ain't gonna do it.

ex gyrene wrote:
Responsible gun advocates, however, should not feel that carrying "heat" somehow proves their masculinity. All it really proves is that the world we live in is kind of a sick place.........but that is why guns are necessary.
Who would argue with that... However, so far nobody but you brought up the connection between guns and manliness. If you are implying that someone did - stop it. Don't imply. Come out and say it, but be prepared to give some details or have BS called on your statement.

ex gyrene wrote:
I have been blessed to live in relative safety most of my life. If I someday feel like I have to carry to be safe, that will be a sad day.

Years ago, I was the "go to" guy for a bunch of drug dealers down near Franklin and Chicago. I defended a lot of them, and was threatened a few times. Being young, and being a Marine, I thought I was invulnerable. One night I was in north MPLS just after dark trying to collect a $5000 retainer from the older brother of my incarcerated client. He didn't have it, but he told me to come back in an hour. As I was walking out, I saw three fresh bullet holes in his car.

I got paid, represented him, mitigated his sentence somewhat and then quit representing that type of criminal. Stupidly probably, I did not fear them, but wisdom won out. I graduated to suburban DWI's and other stuff. It was to dangerous for me since I had two young children at the time. I thought about getting a permit then, but it was more appealing to me to just spend most of my life west of 494 in relative safety. I do miss the excitement of more juicy criminal representation as it was kind of fun. I still occasionally get those types of cases, but guns are not usually involved.
That's an amusing anecdote. What's that got to do with anything?

ex gyrene wrote:
I can't understand why someone in the Greenfield City Council chambers needs a weapon.
And herein lies the crux of the issue - you fail to understand something. Oddly, instead of trying to further your understanding you try to make your failure to understand everyone else's problem.

Need hasn't got a thing to do with it. You are not in a position to determine other people's needs, anyway. However, if you wanted a hypothetical reason, I might suggest that, assuming the city hall is 100% safe, a person can go to many places in the course of the day and it is not practical to disarm for just one.

ex gyrene wrote:
If they have one, it should stay concealed.
Sorry. Not your call. Read the law.


ex gyrene wrote:
I bet that after this conflagration, that city hall is pretty safe now.
I hope you don't bet real money with this kind of certainty. How is it any safer than it was?


ex gyrene wrote:
Perhaps in 09, I'll get a permit.
Good idea. Maybe the class will clear up a few things for you.


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 Post subject: I have enjoyed your responses
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:03 pm 
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on page 9 of this thread.

I do not believe that what has happened has amounted to "terroristic threats".......just childish intimidation.

Sorry if something I say is "irrelevant", it does, however, provide some context, does it not?

Not bad though, I threw my hat into the ring last night and we've burned through 4 pages.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:07 pm 
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"Childish intimidation", which you believe is not even criminal, is just not a reason the rest of us want to have to disarm just so we can enter our city hall and participate in our government.

Democracy is always a messy and inefficient affair. After the Revolution overthrew the monarchies , the Royalists were horrified by the political behavior of the Great Unwashed. We have to get used to that.

I'd bet though, that permit holders are much less likely to engage in "childish intimidation" than your average citizen, council person or no. It is unfortunate that society contains such people. They are never welcome at the gun club.

The intimidators of the world will always find a way to piss you off. They don't need guns, they'll always find a way. It won't help to regulate the rest of us.

And yeah, you did liven things up for us. 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:30 am 
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Dick Unger wrote:
"Childish intimidation", which you believe is not even criminal, is just not a reason the rest of us want to have to disarm just so we can enter our city hall and participate in our government.
Yup. It certainly would be a good reason to persuade the person doing it not to engage in it, if that's possible, or to just learn to develop a thicker skin, but, all in all: yup.

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 Post subject: Reply to ex gyrene
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:50 pm 
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OMG! Where do I begin? First and foremost, I wish to thank all of the people that posted a response to ex gyrene on my behalf. You guys are awesome! I agree with Steve that I need to apologize (not for reason stated). For you guys (not intended to be sexist) to have to read his tirades. We in Greenfield have had to endure his sharped tongue assaults, badgering and threats since 2004 when his dad got elected to council. I ran for his dad’s seat against 5 other candidates and received the highest number of votes. Steve and I are on opposite sides of the political fence, which explains his hostility towards me. This is for you Steve:

I DID NOT DROP A GUN AT THE CITY COUNCIL MEETING! Steve note-24 pt font

When your blood pressure drops enough to see, go read the Star Tribune article from 2 Feb. Also The Crow River news. It’s kind of inconvenient to let the facts get in the way of your accusations (you were not at the meeting in question). It’s interesting to note, you don’t even know me or have made any attempt to contact me to verify any of your claims, but you seem to be able to speak on my qualifications on weapon handling. For your information, I’ve been active in shooting for 26 years. When I lived in California I qualified for and received a conceal carry permit (not an easy task in that state). I was also licensed to sell handguns and long guns. Some of my best friends were cops and on a regular basis we would go to the hills to shoot (600-1000Rds) in an afternoon. I have 24/7 access to a private range and shoot on a regular basis. I take my privilege to carry very seriously. FYI Steve, if your carry gun chaffs, wear underwear before you stick your gun down the front of your pants. To avoid blisters on your thumb while you load all those 9mm mags, use the new technology called a “mag loader”.

Thank you Steve for leaving the city. The contention is considerably less now that your dad is gone and you no longer grace us with your presence at public comment. Any truth to the rumor that you left because of foreclosure?

As for all your other claims (against me) of terroristic threats, intimidation, danger to society, not qualified, small minded, feel larger, sand kicked in face, dangerous, dropping to intimidate, real man doesn’t need to hide behind a gun, brandishing, broadcasting the fact that I carry, unworthiness to carry, petty, unwise, boasting about carrying, doesn’t know how to handle weapons, crusader, insists on braggadocio, stupid, inept handling, not to trust with Moses’ staff, calling two old men liberals and threatening them to boot, publicly stated intent to intimidate, brandish in a public forum, fear of a council member,and an idiot(you missed moron). Whew! I’m sure I missed a few. What meeting did you attend? That’s a lot to pack into one night! I was in the back of the room filming the meeting (on volunteer basis) and did not have a chance to threaten any one. I did trip on a chair just before the meeting while setting up. That was the noise that was interpreted to be a dropped gun.

Steve, seems like the only way you can get your point across is through name-calling and fabrication of events that bear no resemblance to the truth. A real man debates based on documented facts. A real lawyer would know this.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:35 pm 
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I have been waiting for that reply. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Reply to ex gyrene
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:52 pm 
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hveld wrote:
I take my privilege to carry very seriously.


Good reply, except for this bit. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:06 pm 
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Ha. Remember how looney tunes characters could pinch a hose and the pressure would build behind the stop into something huge?

Hahaha :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:43 pm 
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hveld, if you ever move to Woodbury, or I ever move to Greenfield, you've got my vote!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:03 am 
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Wow, hveld well done :!:

I've been trying to stay out of this one but had to comment on that reply.

IMHO - ex gyrene strikes me as an ACLU'er type who agrees with the theoretical rights granted by the 2nd amendment but is too uncomfortable with the realities of it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:55 pm 
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realtor_packing_heat wrote:
Wow, hveld well done :!:

I've been trying to stay out of this one but had to comment on that reply.

IMHO - ex gyrene strikes me as an ACLU'er type who agrees with the theoretical rights granted by the 2nd amendment but is too uncomfortable with the realities of it.
It's simple. Steve is an example of what happens when you don't have a strong moral compass. Seriously, I have more respect for the true anti-gunners than some self proclaimed 2nd amendment believer who would go on the news and cry wolf. His 2nd amendment belief takes a back seat to paying back a political enemy. He'd burn us all to hurt hveld.


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