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 "Gun" story on KSTP tonight 12-30-08 
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:13 am 
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:46 am 
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Selurcspi wrote:
The only EX marines I know of have been dishonourably discharged, is this true in your case, or are just another "WannaBe"?

If it's the former, you can't own a firearm, if it's the latter, you shouldn't own one!


Oh. I don't know. You think that might be a little out of order?

Example,

One of my Father's Army buddies retired a General, and he's now a senior exec of a household name. So he's pretty sharp out-of-service too.

I once injected one of the guy's opinions into a debate I was having with an idiot, in the way of expert testimony more or less. And I quoted his qualifications to give his words weight.

The guy I was debating countered with, "is that why he's a former General?", with this big accomplished grin on his face.

Needless to say that's when the fight started.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:49 am 
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I believe he's commenting on the Once a Marine, Always a Marine. May be retired but STILL a Marine. There are NO EX Marines as that signifies you've LEFT the brotherhood of the Marines


Or something very similar.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:50 am 
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Just as a general observation: when a funny-looking guy with a limp, a harelip, acne rosacea, and a perpetual drool is making a bad argument, it's best to concentrate on the bad argument, rather than making fun of the limp, harelip, acne rosacea, and/or drooling.

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 Post subject: Binky.357 & jdege
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:02 pm 
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This is the appropriate place Binky as the discussion was about the KSTP report.

My response is not mainly about guns. It is about that report.

Do not parse my statements. I am pro second amendment. I am against the conduct of the council persons involved in boasting about carrying to the city council chamber.

Just to be clear, the dude doesn't know how to handle weapons. He never apologized, but instead held himself out as some sort of a crusader against a non-existent anti gun lobby in Greenfield.

I have read all of the previous posts. The councilman in question is not Clint Eastwood or Dirty Harry. That dude does know how to carry a gun. I also would not trust him with Moses' staff, Ben Hur's charriot or Charlton's Winchester 94.

Pay attention everyone. NO APOLOGY FOR BEING AN IDIOT OR SLOPPY WITH HIS WEAPON.................not even a public explanation........ and then calling two old men that have been active in politics for longer than he has been alive liberals................and threatening them to boot. Those are not the actions of someone that I want crusading for my rights to keep and bear arms.

To hold him out as some sort of HERO is laughable. The purpose of carrying guns is not to threaten other citizens or to punctuate a political belief. The weapons protect our political beliefs. A citizen in our free constitutionally protected society does not have the right to impose his political will on another citizen through the threat of a gun. A governmental official does not have the right to personally threaten citizens by boasting of his armaments while sitting in a non-law enforcement office.

The councilman's responses in this forum are not from someone that will ever get even a tiny bit of respect from this conservative. I certainly do not believe that he should be carrying a gun to city hall or a bpou when the publicly stated intent is to intimidate. If you disagree with that statement then at least allow that he rejoices in the perceived fear that he would inflict on a harmless old man who is a faithful servant in our community.

Do not twist my words, drop F-bombs on me, call me treasonous or think for even a second that I am not a supporter of gun rights. I am specifically against the rights of certain people to carry guns to the city hall in Greenfield MN.

We need to fight against the lobby against gun rights. We do not need to support people that want to turn the city of Greenfield into Deadwood 150 years ago..............but wait...........you may not have been able to carry guns into the saloon back then.

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 Post subject: Re: Binky.357 & jdege
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:07 pm 
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ex gyrene wrote:
the publicly stated intent is to intimidate

Shouldn't the police just be called then?

ex gyrene wrote:
I am specifically against the rights of certain people to carry guns to the city hall in Greenfield MN.

Isn't it just one certain person? Why not go after just his rights instead of the rest of the citizens?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:11 pm 
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Quote:
or think for even a second that I am not a supporter of gun rights. I am specifically against the rights of certain people to carry guns to the city hall in Greenfield MN.


That's the self-contradictory attitude that got us where we are today with all of the gun control.

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 Post subject: Re: Binky.357 & jdege
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:13 pm 
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DeanC wrote:
ex gyrene wrote:
the publicly stated intent is to intimidate

Shouldn't the police just be called then?

ex gyrene wrote:
I am specifically against the rights of certain people to carry guns to the city hall in Greenfield MN.

Isn't it just one certain person? Why not go after just his rights instead of the rest of the citizens?


+1


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 Post subject: Re: Binky.357 & jdege
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:14 pm 
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ex gyrene wrote:
The purpose of carrying guns is not to threaten other citizens or to punctuate a political belief. The weapons protect our political beliefs. A citizen in our free constitutionally protected society does not have the right to impose his political will on another citizen through the threat of a gun. A governmental official does not have the right to personally threaten citizens by boasting of his armaments while sitting in a non-law enforcement office.


Please quote and illustrate where that happened. With citations please.

I can boast of my armaments ANYWHERE it's not illegal to possess them. And that's not personally threatening anyone that does not choose to feel threatened. Is it wise? perhaps not. Is it illegal? Nope. Is it threatening outside of some specific articulated and directed threat? Certainly not.

If you or your father or anyone chooses to feel threatened by the mere presence of a firearm, that's not the firearm or its owner's responsibility, that's yours.

Unsafe gun handling on the other hand is worrisome in any environment and should be corrected. I doubt you'll see a repeat performance and am unsure the actual extent of the incident. There's been a bit of heat / flame / rhetoric / exaggeration on all sides in this issue it seems.

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 Post subject: Give me a break
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:18 pm 
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Now I am a dishonorably discharged Marine? You guys are insane. I thought "FORMER" Marine was to long, and ....................................why waste my time in this forum. IT'S A USERNAME NOT A TITLE

I am extremely proud of being a Marine. Those of you that haven't been one do not have the right to expound wisely about my choice of a USERNAME.

You all clearly want to support the councilman. You can have him.

He will not help our cause.

PS: The discharge was Honorable..........get a life.

PPS: For you decent posters out there, I am not referring to you, so don't take offense. For you idiots...........feel free to be offended.

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 Post subject: Re: Binky.357 & jdege
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:18 pm 
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ex gyrene wrote:
Do not parse my statements.

This is the internet, have fun.

ex gyrene wrote:
Just to be clear, the dude doesn't know how to handle weapons.

I would disagree, having shot with him on at least one occasion.

ex gyrene wrote:
The purpose of carrying guns is not to threaten other citizens or to punctuate a political belief.

I would disagree, carrying a gun can be political punctuation just like a button or t-shirt.

ex gyrene wrote:
...when the publicly stated intent is to intimidate...

Citation Needed.

ex gyrene wrote:
We need to fight against the lobby against gun rights.

Not providing them with useful idiots with useful quotes on useful cameras would be a good first step.


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 Post subject: Re: Binky.357 & jdege
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:18 pm 
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ex gyrene wrote:
This is the appropriate place Binky as the discussion was about the KSTP report.

My response is not mainly about guns. It is about that report.
Fair enough. Just as I don't tell other folks to stop digging, I'm not going to tell you to.
Quote:


Do not parse my statements. I am pro second amendment. I am against the conduct of the council persons involved in boasting about carrying to the city council chamber.
Again: fair enough. You don't like the guy. Your reasons are good enough for you, and that's fine.
Quote:

Just to be clear, the dude doesn't know how to handle weapons. He never apologized, but instead held himself out as some sort of a crusader against a non-existent anti gun lobby in Greenfield.
I dunno. I know of a couple of folks who have been talking, at least implicitly, about changing the law to restrict carry there. That doesn't make them DiFi, but . . .
Quote:


I have read all of the previous posts. The councilman in question is not Clint Eastwood or Dirty Harry. That dude does know how to carry a gun. I also would not trust him with Moses' staff, Ben Hur's charriot or Charlton's Winchester 94.

Pay attention everyone. NO APOLOGY FOR BEING AN IDIOT OR SLOPPY WITH HIS WEAPON.................not even a public explanation........ and then calling two old men that have been active in politics for longer than he has been alive liberals................and threatening them to boot. Those are not the actions of someone that I want crusading for my rights to keep and bear arms.
Fine; again: you don't like him. I got that. You think you've got good reason to dislike the guy; I got that, too. You sold us all on that, honest.
Quote:

To hold him out as some sort of HERO is laughable.
Fine; again: you don't like him. I got that. You think you've got good reason to dislike the guy; I got that, too. You sold us all on that, honest.
Quote:
The purpose of carrying guns is not to threaten other citizens or to punctuate a political belief. The weapons protect our political beliefs. A citizen in our free constitutionally protected society does not have the right to impose his political will on another citizen through the threat of a gun. A governmental official does not have the right to personally threaten citizens by boasting of his armaments while sitting in a non-law enforcement office.
Oops. There you're losing it. Is that a threat? I dunno -- if you think it is, then drop a dime on him; let the cops and prosecutors sort it out. My guess is that, unless there's a lot more to the story, he made nothing close to a threat by discussing his guns, no matter where he was sitting, and -- and this is kind of a key point -- I think you know that, as disliking the guy as you do, you'd have already arranged to see him get perp-walked if you thought you could persuade the gendarmes that he threatened you or your father.
Quote:
The councilman's responses in this forum are not from someone that will ever get even a tiny bit of respect from this conservative. I certainly do not believe that he should be carrying a gun to city hall or a bpou when the publicly stated intent is to intimidate. If you disagree with that statement then at least allow that he rejoices in the perceived fear that he would inflict on a harmless old man who is a faithful servant in our community.

Do not twist my words, drop F-bombs on me, call me treasonous or think for even a second that I am not a supporter of gun rights. I am specifically against the rights of certain people to carry guns to the city hall in Greenfield MN..
Yup. And the hardest time to be supportive of rights is when they're ones you wouldn't want to exercise, being exercised by somebody who you despise.

Consider rising to the challenge.

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 Post subject: Re: Binky.357 & jdege
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:22 pm 
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ex gyrene wrote:
I am specifically against the rights of certain people to carry guns to the city hall in Greenfield MN.


I wonder how the Nazi escaping senior Jankowski feels about the rights of some people....


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 Post subject: Re: Give me a break
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:27 pm 
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ex gyrene wrote:
Now I am a dishonorably discharged Marine? You guys are insane. I thought "FORMER" Marine was to long, and ....................................why waste my time in this forum. IT'S A USERNAME NOT A TITLE


It's not the username, it's the "As a former US Marine,". As a never-been-a-Marine, I don't have a dog in the fight, but most Marines I know are Marines for life, regardless of discharge date. The only ex-Marines are dishonorably discharged Marines.

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 Post subject: Re: Give me a break
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:29 pm 
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ex gyrene wrote:
I am extremely proud of being a Marine. Those of you that haven't been one do not have the right to expound wisely about my choice of a USERNAME.


It's called the 1st Amendment ... Might want to give it some consideration. True, those who have not been Marines don't KNOW what it means to be a Marine. I'd Wager Selurcpsi may know a Marine or two and something about service before self though ...

ex gyrene wrote:
You all clearly want to support the councilman. You can have him.


We all (I can safely say) want to oppose officious, grandstanding restrictions of a lawful activity, especially when played out in the court of public opinion in front of a camera.

ex gyrene wrote:
He will not help our cause.

Neither have you nor your father by choosing this route to curb lawful behavior. If a crime was committed, call the sheriff. Don't do us any favors by calling the media to exaggerate the issue and film your ill conceived circus.

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