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BCA Report Out
http://twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11975		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  Lenny7 [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:05 pm ]
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Someone should go through every years report and total up what Ramsey claims to have spent on office machines over the last 5 years, then walk in to the office and ask to see it all. I bet you get blank stares and quizzical looks.
Author:  a911scanner [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:51 pm ]
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Ramsey probably includes a portion of everyone's salary needed to help keep the machine running.... like the janitor, the computer techs, the radio techs, the 3 levels of management, as well as the full pay of the 2 deputies & two civilian secretaries. :roll:

On top of that, what the hell machine even needed to be replaced (or purchased for the first time) when the hand out rate is 1/3 that of Hennepin (not counting the fact that they deny roughly 8% right out of the shoot)

Even Anoka gave out more, and Dakota & Washington counties nearly as much. Anoka has roughly 1/2 the population of Ramsey....

Numbers don't lie, even if the politcos do.


MM
Author:  Fubar [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:25 pm ]
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Hennepin had a second denial entry for each denial that was upheld after being challenged. Are they padding the stats or was it just a formatting problem?
Author:  Rip Van Winkle [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:55 am ]
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Interesting. Dakota county had 1417 applications at a cost of $13,251.99. That means it cost them $9.35 per permit app.

I think the Dakota County Sheriff owes me a refund.
Author:  Inebrius [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:16 am ]
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realtor_packing_heat wrote:
and 15k for "office machines". What a joke!


Thats about the going rate for a service contract on 2 top of line multifunction printer/copier/fax machines. It's pretty much a standard expense in any office that pushes allot of paper.
Author:  Dick Unger [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:41 am ]
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The Sheriffs are NOT trained on "actual costs".

I was the first renewal in my county. The Sheriff and his secretary took my renewal, and they had just returned from a Continuing Education class on carry permits. They happily said it only takes 2 minutes to do the computer check, but longer for the mental health stuff), and they make $100! That's the way this is presented, I think. Easy money.

They had never heard of "actual costs". We had to look up the $75 limit for renewals, but then they remembered that. Kind of a disappointment, though.

If we want Sheriffs to follow the law on costs, we have to reach the POST trainers with the issue. Otherwise, the Sheriff and his employees will always assume their CLE instructors are right, and the doofus applying for a carry permit is talking nonsense.

The budgets have been cut severely, and this is money from home to a Sheriff.
Author:  Sietch [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
First person to catch a documented lie wins his/her choice (within reason) of Forum title.


Ha. Somebody's a born manager. Talk about cost efficiency.

I like that. And yeah I'm searching.
Author:  princewally [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Sietch wrote:
Quote:
First person to catch a documented lie wins his/her choice (within reason) of Forum title.


Ha. Somebody's a born manager. Talk about cost efficiency.

I like that. And yeah I'm searching.


Seems to me that if he contradicts himself between the cost reporting and the issued permits reporting sections, he's got to be lying in one of the sections.
Author:  realtor_packing_heat [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Inebrius wrote:
realtor_packing_heat wrote:
and 15k for "office machines". What a joke!


Thats about the going rate for a service contract on 2 top of line multifunction printer/copier/fax machines. It's pretty much a standard expense in any office that pushes allot of paper.


I bet that those machines don't get used for any other uses in the office other then to issue (i mean deny) permits right :?:
Author:  SoMN40S&W [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:44 pm ]
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Is Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher's email address anywhere on the website? I have an email drafted suggesting that he contact the Sheriffs from Dakota and Anoka county and attempt to meet with them to help him turn a profit on issuing/denying permits. All 3 counties have similar stats (apps etc.), except for the bottom line....if those #'s are real(obviously not) he should think about enrolling at Normandale in Business 101
Author:  a911scanner [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
SoMN40S&W wrote:
Is Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher's email address anywhere on the website? I have an email drafted suggesting that he contact the Sheriffs from Dakota and Anoka county and attempt to meet with them to help him turn a profit on issuing/denying permits. All 3 counties have similar stats (apps etc.), except for the bottom line....if those #'s are real(obviously not) he should think about enrolling at Normandale in Business 101



...And the fact that Ramsey has a much higher percentage of "just 'cause we said so" denials.



MM
Author:  kpaul [ Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
I wonder how many holders used their permit/pistol to "defend" themselves in 2008 WITHOUT having to pull the trigger--

The NRA says it in the thousands

I know "defend" is pretty broad but would say showed pistol, drew pistol, made it know to the perp that you were carrying etc.--

This part of the report than can be taken in two differnet ways because of the lack of info.

Possible view from anti-gun winnie :wink:
The reports makes it looks like of all off these permits are for nothing as no one had to use their firearm to defend themselves

My view
Because of over 50,000 of us have permits no one had to use their permit to shoot a "perp"-- The report seems biased in that for the BCA to get the info.
1. A shooting by a permit holder would have to actully acure
2. A report to PD would need to be made
3. D.A. would have to act one way or the other etc.
to me the BCA needs to work on the "to the extent know" part of the report--


Below is copied and pasted form the BCA report
6) Reporting Requirement
To the extent known or determinable, data on the lawful and
justifiable use of firearms by permit holders.
Number of lawful and justifiable use of firearms by permit holders: __0__
Author:  kecker [ Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Inebrius wrote:
realtor_packing_heat wrote:
and 15k for "office machines". What a joke!


Thats about the going rate for a service contract on 2 top of line multifunction printer/copier/fax machines. It's pretty much a standard expense in any office that pushes allot of paper.


Yeah but what office machines would be required to process a carry permit that weren't already owned and used by the Sheriff's office??

At most I'll accept that maybe an additional copy machine/printer was needed for the added workload....that's a single one time purchase.

BS accounting practices it more likely. Consider the source after all.
Author:  Dee [ Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Below is copied and pasted form the BCA report
6) Reporting Requirement
To the extent known or determinable, data on the lawful and
justifiable use of firearms by permit holders.
Number of lawful and justifiable use of firearms by permit holders: __0__


We know that's BS. What about the Blong Her Fang incident? Apparently the jury thought that it was justifiable.
http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11874
Author:  joelr [ Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:05 pm ]
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It's important to look at the details. The law requires the BCA to publish the accumlated DGU number that are given to them by the sheriffs; if the sheriffs don't give any numbers, they won't have any to publish.
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