If denied in MN. Can you use Utah to carry in MN?
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ssax
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Post subject: If denied in MN. Can you use Utah to carry in MN? Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:49 pm |
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Journeyman Member |
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Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:14 pm Posts: 67
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Does anyone know if someone is denied in MN but Utah approves them, can they still legally carry in MN?
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plblark
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:54 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:41 am Posts: 4468
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The Utah permit is currently recognized in MN. Whether you'd get approved fro a Utah if you were finally denied a MN permit
_________________ Certified Carry Permit Instructor (MNTactics.com and ShootingSafely.com) Click here for current Carry Classes "There is no safety for honest men, except by believing all possible evil of evil men." - Edwin Burke
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kimberman
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:55 pm |
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Wise Elder |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm Posts: 2782 Location: St. Paul
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Not if they can't possess a firearm in Minnesota.
Section 624.714, subd. 16(b).
See also, section 624.714, subd. 16(c) for court proceeding (B/P on Sheriff) to revoke authority to carry in Minnesota on an out-of-state permit.
Otherwise, yes.
Last edited by kimberman on Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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TLRSKUNK
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:55 pm |
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Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:04 am Posts: 57 Location: Lakeville MN
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How can you be denied here but still even get a Utah permit? don't they use the same systems for background checks? this sounds very weird to me.
(someone with knowledge please enlighten us)
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joelr
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Post subject: Re: If denied in MN. Can you use Utah to carry in MN? Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:57 pm |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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ssax wrote: Does anyone know if someone is denied in MN but Utah approves them, can they still legally carry in MN? Joe's already talked about the statute. (I didn't want to get into that for various reasons; I'm glad he chose to.)
We don't have any case law on that, and that's precisely the issue I discuss in TCCarry with people a: from RamseyCo, who b: have any paper on them at all, and who c: are willing to take a chance on Utah.
Lemme guess: the ongoing RamseyCo problem and how to handle it -- it didn't come up in your class at Bill's, correct?
_________________ Just a guy.
Last edited by joelr on Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:58 pm |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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TLRSKUNK wrote: How can you be denied here but still even get a Utah permit? don't they use the same systems for background checks? this sounds very weird to me.
(someone with knowledge please enlighten us) Utah doesn't have quite the same standards; specifically, they don't have discretionary language that lets sheriffs abuse applicants, as Fletcher does.
_________________ Just a guy.
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kimberman
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:59 pm |
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Wise Elder |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm Posts: 2782 Location: St. Paul
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You can be denied in Utah for "moral turpitude."
You can be denied in Minnesota for "substantial dangerousness."
Those standards aren't the same but close enough, apparently.
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princewally
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:00 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:02 am Posts: 1684 Location: St Louis Park
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TLRSKUNK wrote: How can you be denied here but still even get a Utah permit? don't they use the same systems for background checks? this sounds very weird to me.
(someone with knowledge please enlighten us)
If you are denied for BS that doesn't disqualify you because you happen to live in a county with a Sheriff who doesn't understand a) the difference between citizens and subjects and b) the letter of the law. That doesn't come up in a background check.
_________________ Of the people, By the People, For the People. The government exists to serve us, not the reverse.
-------------------- Next MN carry permit class: TBD.
Permit to Carry MN --------------------
jason <at> metrodefense <dot> com
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:01 pm |
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The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am Posts: 7970 Location: Minneapolis MN
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princewally wrote: TLRSKUNK wrote: How can you be denied here but still even get a Utah permit? don't they use the same systems for background checks? this sounds very weird to me.
(someone with knowledge please enlighten us) If you are denied for BS that doesn't disqualify you because you happen to live in a county with a Sheriff who doesn't understand a) the difference between citizens and subjects and b) the letter of the law. That doesn't come up in a background check. ... except, maybe, a very good one, when voters are looking into <s>Fletcher's</s> the sheriff's background.
_________________ Just a guy.
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ssax
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:37 pm |
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Journeyman Member |
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Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:14 pm Posts: 67
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I actually took the class with Craig Brownell at mnpistolclass. He told me to not even apply in Ramsey and just shoot for the Utah after I told him about my record not being so clean.
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Andrew Rothman
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:37 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am Posts: 6767 Location: Twin Cities
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kimberman wrote: You can be denied in Utah for "moral turpitude."
You can be denied in Minnesota for "substantial dangerousness."
Those standards aren't the same but close enough, apparently.
Utah specifically lists crimes of moral turpitude -- dishonest acts like passing bad checks, theft, embezzlement -- of which you must be convicted before being denied.
Ramsey will deny you on the basis of a police call or an acquittal.
_________________ * NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.
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motoman
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:51 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:19 pm Posts: 333
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Screw the justice system. We don't need a pesky thing like a conviction to stand in the way of a denial. A police report will suffice. Acquitted by a jury of your peers? Not good enough for Sheriff Fletcher!
Andrew Rothman wrote: kimberman wrote: You can be denied in Utah for "moral turpitude."
You can be denied in Minnesota for "substantial dangerousness."
Those standards aren't the same but close enough, apparently. Utah specifically lists crimes of moral turpitude -- dishonest acts like passing bad checks, theft, embezzlement -- of which you must be convicted before being denied. Ramsey will deny you on the basis of a police call or an acquittal.
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kecker
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:53 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:57 am Posts: 818 Location: Apple Valley, MN
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ssax wrote: I actually took the class with Craig Brownell at mnpistolclass. He told me to not even apply in Ramsey and just shoot for the Utah after I told him about my record not being so clean.
I dunno. When you have a stable of lawyers that seem to regard (and rightly so) Fletcher as their own game of "Wack-A-Mole" I don't know if I'd punt so easily.
Then again I live in Dakota
_________________ http://www.eckernet.com My mind is like a steel trap - rusty and illegal in 37 states.
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Sietch
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:55 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:05 pm Posts: 199 Location: Twin Cities, MN
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heh. That's rich.
_________________ "My name is Shosanna Dreyfus. This is the face of Jewish vengeance."
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ssax
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:01 pm |
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Journeyman Member |
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Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:14 pm Posts: 67
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kecker wrote: ssax wrote: I actually took the class with Craig Brownell at mnpistolclass. He told me to not even apply in Ramsey and just shoot for the Utah after I told him about my record not being so clean. I dunno. When you have a stable of lawyers that seem to regard (and rightly so) Fletcher as their own game of "Wack-A-Mole" I don't know if I'd punt so easily. Then again I live in Dakota
Too bad they don't have a fund hat someone can tap into to pay the legal costs upfront though... The Ramsey County Permit To Carry Relief Fund (RCPTCRF).
Not that it isn't worth it. Just might take a while for some (like me) to scrounge up a couple grand. But it's my own doing I guess.
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