Cuffed and Stuffed for Open Carry
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Lenny7
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Post subject:  Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:31 pm |
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| Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:09 am
Posts: 1060
Location: Savage, MN
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Timothy Nelson wrote: After the law has been in effect for so long, I find it hard to believe that certain departments ACTUALLY DO NOT know the law... rather, they choose to interpret the law how they see fit, after all, what is a hassled permit holder going to do about it? Can't make them receive the information (provided they need it in the first place.) I can't recall who was doing the testifying at the time, but last year when HF498 was receiving a committee hearing, someone*...a police chief perhaps, was joking around that sometime even his cops couldn't keep track of what was and wasn't a felony. Given that, it's not surprising that they don't know the intricacies of the the state carry law.
* ETA: It was Doug Johnson, Washington County Attorney’s Office; Minnesota County Attorneys Association
Last edited by Lenny7 on Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mnglocker
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:31 pm |
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| Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:04 pm
Posts: 1682
Location: Wright County
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joelr wrote: Binky .357 wrote: Oh, and, welcome to the forum. Yeah, that, too. I'm not going to quibble with cops checking out a PERGUN call, honest. I don't know what the Anoka County dispatch folks heard, or said -- although I am curious. And, depending on what the cops heard and/or saw and/or thought they heard and saw, up until the undereducated fine, professional law enforcer started giving out an ignorant, arrogant, and factually inaccurate lecture on the law, I'm not at all sure he was wrong. After that, well, I am. I'll give you a call in a little bit, I did some digging. 
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Get Off My Lawn.
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:34 pm |
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| The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am
Posts: 7970
Location: Minneapolis MN
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I'll wait as patiently as possible. Which isn't much.
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Just a guy.
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Hunter07
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:46 pm |
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| Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:53 am
Posts: 725
Location: New Ulm area
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sheepdog wrote: Charged you with what? Stampeeding sheep..........le. 
Welcome to the forum!
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The only downfall to a 1911A1, is actually a plus: You can have it your way, and can put an unreal amount of money into em'.
Squeeze trigger, BANG, repeat. Kind of boring, but I never cared for drama.
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mnglocker
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:50 pm |
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| Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:04 pm
Posts: 1682
Location: Wright County
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Incident Narrative 1
Quote: ANON REPORT OF A MALE WEARING A GREEN MOUNTAIN DEW T SHIRT AND SHORTS WHO HAD A GUN
IN A HOLSTER INSIDE LOI ARRIVED INITIALLY DID NOT LOCATE THE MALE AS I WAS ABOUT TO LEAVE I
OBSERVED A MALE MATCHING THE DESCRIPTION GIVEN WALKING IN THE PARKING LOT OF LOI I
STOPPED THE MALE AND DETAINED HIM AT GUNPOINT MALE LATER IDENTIFIED BY MN PHOTO DL AS
AAS HAD A BLACK HANDGUN IN A HOLSTER ON HIS RIGHT HIP IN FULL VIEW GUN WAS REMOVED AND
MADE SAFE I HANDCUFFED A A S DOUBLE LOCKCHECKED FOR TIGHTNESS CHECKED HIM FOR
ADDITIONAL WEAPONS AND DETAINED HIM IN MY SQUAD A A S HAS A VALID PERMIT TO CARRY AA S
WAS CLEAR WARRANTS A A S WAS RELEASED AT THE SCENE AND GIVEN HIS GUN BACK I ADVISED
AA S THAT IT WASA REALLY BAD IDEA TO CARRY HIS WEAPON IN FULL VIEW OF EVERYONE IN A PUBLIC
PLACE I ALSO ADVISED HIM THAT IF CARRYING THE GUN IN THE OPEN CAUSED A LARGE PANIC IE
WALKING INTO A BANK HE COULD POSSIBLY BE CHARGED WITH A CRIME AA S STATED HE
UNDERSTOOD BUT THAT HE WOULD PROBABLY CONTINUE TO CARRY IT THISWAY CLEAR
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Get Off My Lawn.
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Timothy Nelson
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:53 pm |
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| Senior Member |
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Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 2:40 pm
Posts: 379
Location: Hopkins
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Someone who's going to rob a bank, shoot someone or cause violent harm isn't going to transport the gun out in the open in a holster.
WTF. Just doesn't make sense to me. 
Common sense.
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Best,
Timothy
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:58 pm |
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| The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am
Posts: 7970
Location: Minneapolis MN
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mnglocker wrote: Incident Narrative 1 Quote: ANON REPORT OF A MALE WEARING A GREEN MOUNTAIN DEW T SHIRT AND SHORTS WHO HAD A GUN
IN A HOLSTER INSIDE LOI ARRIVED INITIALLY DID NOT LOCATE THE MALE AS I WAS ABOUT TO LEAVE I
OBSERVED A MALE MATCHING THE DESCRIPTION GIVEN WALKING IN THE PARKING LOT OF LOI I
STOPPED THE MALE AND DETAINED HIM AT GUNPOINT MALE LATER IDENTIFIED BY MN PHOTO DL AS
AAS HAD A BLACK HANDGUN IN A HOLSTER ON HIS RIGHT HIP IN FULL VIEW GUN WAS REMOVED AND
MADE SAFE I HANDCUFFED A A S DOUBLE LOCKCHECKED FOR TIGHTNESS CHECKED HIM FOR
ADDITIONAL WEAPONS AND DETAINED HIM IN MY SQUAD A A S HAS A VALID PERMIT TO CARRY AA S
WAS CLEAR WARRANTS A A S WAS RELEASED AT THE SCENE AND GIVEN HIS GUN BACK I ADVISED
AA S THAT IT WASA REALLY BAD IDEA TO CARRY HIS WEAPON IN FULL VIEW OF EVERYONE IN A PUBLIC
PLACE I ALSO ADVISED HIM THAT IF CARRYING THE GUN IN THE OPEN CAUSED A LARGE PANIC IE
WALKING INTO A BANK HE COULD POSSIBLY BE CHARGED WITH A CRIME AA S STATED HE
UNDERSTOOD BUT THAT HE WOULD PROBABLY CONTINUE TO CARRY IT THISWAY CLEAR Hmmm... somebody seems to have left out the part about giving ignorant, arrogant, and factually inaccurate legal information on open carry, but learned better.
Unfortunate.
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Just a guy.
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Timothy Nelson
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:02 pm |
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Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 2:40 pm
Posts: 379
Location: Hopkins
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Example:
Call-in: "We got a hot one, an open carrier!"
Response: "...............That's legal"
To A A S: "Oh.... Sorry"
Something like that.
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Best,
Timothy
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mnglocker
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:06 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:04 pm
Posts: 1682
Location: Wright County
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Timothy Nelson wrote: Example:
Call-in: "We got a hot one, an open carrier!"
Response: "...............That's legal"
To A A S: "Oh.... Sorry"
Something like that. I spoke with the person in charge at Anoka County Dispatch. She said the caller said the gun was holstered so they didn't bother asking whether or not he was shooting or threatening people.
Apparently Anoka County knows to ask that if the caller doesn't mention where or what the MWAG is doing. This falls on CRPD.
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Get Off My Lawn.
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:08 pm |
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| The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am
Posts: 7970
Location: Minneapolis MN
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Yup. Chief Wells needs to do better.
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MostlyHarmless
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:00 pm |
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Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:24 pm
Posts: 471
Location: 12 miles east of Lake Wobegon
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So, another OC incident. In short, the facts are: a) the OCer did absolutely nothing wrong and was within the bounds of the law and behaving reasonably, b) people were scared, c) cops came and behaved poorly.
The officer responding and his outfit do indeed need a large infusion of clue. No one has called "fool" on a cop responding alone to a MWAG call (c.f. rule 1b of gunfighting). Either he had a going-in assumption that the call was bogus or he was a fool. But I digress.
Experience has shown that b) and c) follow along behind a) about as surely as pregnancy follows unprotected sex. Which is to say, not every time, but predictably often, and if you do it enough, it's a sure thing.
I have two questions. 1) For Madrevar. Was it worth it?
2) For everyone else. Were the overall goals of the carry movement furthered or set back by this incident?
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mnglocker
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:07 pm |
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| Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:04 pm
Posts: 1682
Location: Wright County
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MostlyHarmless wrote: 2) For everyone else. Were the overall goals of the carry movement furthered or set back by this incident? I don't think this incident did good or bad for the carry movement. Nobody learned a thing but the responding LEO's, and they shouldn't have had to learn it on the spot.
If the CRPD takes up an offer to recieve some training regarding MN's carry law, this will have been a forward movement.
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Get Off My Lawn.
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1911fan
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:09 pm |
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:18 pm
Posts: 1689
Location: 35 W and Hiway 10
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Mostly, I think he has the right to do as he pleases. asking him if it was worth it is senseless.
what does it do for "our side" well, an officer got Pwned pretty badly, and he had to walk back and apologize for being ignorant of the law, and hot headed besides. NOW all of the officers who were involved, and probably involved in the shift, now know that OC is legal. It's a protected activity, and getting hot about it will not get them far. I am sure that had one iota of extra force been used, our OP would be planning a nice vacation to someplace warm courtesy of the taxpayers of CR. I am very sure that the whole PD learned that lesson very fast.
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molan labe
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JimC
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:12 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:56 pm
Posts: 1109
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Wearing shorts, T shirt & Sandals in March?? Hmmmm Sumtin isn't right here
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joelr
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:15 pm |
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| The Man |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am
Posts: 7970
Location: Minneapolis MN
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JimC wrote: Wearing shorts, T shirt & Sandals in March?? Hmmmm Sumtin isn't right here Yup. But weather-inappropriate fashion choices are not a police matter.
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