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 Cuffed and Stuffed for Open Carry 
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:05 am 
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PocketProtector642 wrote:
I tend to think it was a mildly-good thing for the carry community. The CRPD will now know how to handle it in the future, and hopefully anyone else involved (or gawkers) will have seen the OP being set free and the whole thing resolved. It sounds like the way the OP handled himself was a + for all of us too. He was calm, rational, and didn't put up a fight: just the kind of guy we need the public to see.

I agree. 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:10 am 
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If what I wear can get me stopped, MPD is doing a terrible job. Outside of work and church, I am in shorts. Unless I am snow-blowing, it is all I wear. Further, most of the time, I am wearing only a sweatshirt and my "winter" coat is more closely related to a spring jacket than a parka. 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:29 am 
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First, welcome to the forum.

Next, kudos for how you handled the situation. I would have been furious. Knowing that I was doing nothing wrong let alone illegal and being treated this way would have probably set me off. I'm glad you remained calm. I can only hope I would do the same. I would have been more than tempted to educate the officer that there is nothing about "concealed" written into the law. Furthermore, that "concealed" is something the media started using and most people assumed it from there. I forgive the average person about that detail (but correct them) but not a LEO. I can't believe that virtually every department didn't point out to their officers at some point since 2003 (yes I know about the legalities before that time) that open or concealed is a matter of choice and either is legal. I just can't believe it.

As some have stated, I think overall it had a small positive effect in that some people were educated about the law and will know better next time. Whether they change their opinion or actions in the future, remains to be seen.

At minimum, I would contact the chief and express my displeasure at being treated that way. I would make SURE to point out that the officer said the actions were illegal to begin with. I would suggest that perhaps additional training is needed to make sure other officers are up to speed on this law. I'm not sure if I would bring up the officer's threat about arresting you in the future for open carry. I'm kind of on the fence on that one with a major leaning toward telling the chief.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:50 am 
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Dee wrote:
Quote:
Heavy coats and stocking gaps in the summer, T shirts in the middle of winter, unzipped jackets etc.


Lots of kids wear stocking caps year around. I see a lot of young kids with T shirts on in the winter. I also notice many, many young girls don't zip their jackets. It can be freezing cold and windy and the kids are shivvering but they have the jacket unzipped. It used to bug the hell out of me but now I hardly even notice.
I think its a sign of what the kids think is fashionable and not that there is something wrong with them.


An experienced psychologist can watch kids walking into school and pretty accurately tell you who is on Riddlin, who is a "good" student gradewise, who is a bully, etc., just from dress and demeanor. It's not perfect, but he'll hit 75%.

And, after a 2 minute conversation about the weather, he'll be at 90%.

The problem with this stuff is, he'll think he's at 100%, and be perfectly prejudiced. But we all "size each other up" all the time. Savy people can be pretty accurate. I'm not saying it's fair, just that it works.

The law sometimes calls this kind of "savy" thing "reasonable suspicion".


Last edited by Dick Unger on Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:58 am 
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I prefer to carry concealed to avoid incidents like this. However, those that choose to OC should not have to worry about being hassled. I am somewhat surprised that there are still some LEOs ignorant of the law.


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 Post subject: Re: Cuffed and Stuffed for Open Carry
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:53 am 
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madrevar wrote:
3-2-09

12:30pm

Coon Rapids (Riverdale Crossing)

For reference, I begin this story carrying a CZ82 9x18mm in an all but unused Czech leather police holster, with thumb-break. I am wearing nothing but shorts/tshirt/sandals with only wallet/gun on me, with keys in left hand and beverage in right.

My girlfriend and I had just eaten at Chipotle and were leaving to pay my phone bill at the adjacent TMobile. After leaving Tmobile, we proceeded across the lot to my truck. I got as far as the rearend of my truck, when a Coon Rapids Police Department marked car flew in and stopped a few parking spots to the left and opposite my side, approximately 15 yards away. The Officer commanded, "Hey, you! Get over here!" Then, "Now turn around, up against the car!" This car was to my left parked next to my truck. I complied with all demands up to this point. As the Officer approached me with pistol drawn, "DO YOU KNOW WHAT FRICKEN' CONCEALED CARRY MEANS?" As he puts my hands behind my head I reply, "Yes Sir." Then he asks, "Then why are you carrying out in the open like that?" I chose my words carefully, "Well, Officer my permit says 'Permit To Carry' not 'Concealed Carry'." He says, "I DON'T CARE WHAT THE FRICKEN PERMIT SAYS! ITS CALLED 'MINNESOTA CONCEALED CARRY LAW' FOR A REASON!"

After disarming me and handing my pistol to his partner to be secured, he immediately started cuffing me. I ask, "Officer, may I ask why we are cuffing?" To which he replies, "So I can frisk you and put you in the car." At this point I am not sure what is going to happen, but start thinking a "Disorderly Conduct/Distubing The Peace" charge is in my future. After putting me in his squad, he and his partner and another officer deliberate on what to charge me with and if open carry is legal. After about ten minutes he comes back and starts asking me the rudimentary questions for his report, where I live, phone number, etc. After that he lets me out of the car, uncuffs me and gives me my keys and wallet back, but no gun yet. First he gives me the speil about how open carry is not the best idea, sheeple will call MWAG, and how if enough sheople would have been disturbed he would have charged me. He also told me that when and if I have law enforcement respond again I should be fine if I do as I did that day. He also admitted that he didn't have much experience with carrying off-duty much so he hasn't had to deal with it himself. All in all the Officers were polite and professional, even if a bit excessive with the detainment. He had me and the girlfriend get in my truck, hands my pistol and mag back to me through my window. I notice my previously-chambered round is missing, so I asked him to get that for me. We shook hands and I asked for his card. Then he went on his way.

No particular agenda on my part, just looking for comments and contructive criticisms from all. Thanks


Perhaps a <a href="http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2009/03/05/guns_on_MARTA.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab">lawsuit is in your future</a>

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:05 pm 
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If you're going to Open Carry...

Wear this. :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:08 pm 
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Timothy Nelson wrote:
If you're going to Open Carry...

Wear this. :wink:



Or just make sure you have a couple of adorable little girls with you.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:10 pm 
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Works too!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:32 pm 
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There's an extra quotation mark at the end. :)

For the record, a boy and a girl works as well, if they are sufficiently cute.

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 Post subject: Revised
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:55 pm 
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Revised version! 8) :)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:24 pm 
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looks like suitable attire for the next Effen Gopher breakfast!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:44 pm 
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I like it, although my favorite part of the law is:
Quote:
No sheriff, police chief, governmental unit, government official, government employee, or other person or body acting under color of law or governmental authority may change, modify, or supplement these criteria or procedures, or limit the exercise of a permit to carry.
It doesn't say, "This means, you, Joseph Neufeld and Terry Thomton of the CRPD," but maybe it should.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:57 pm 
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:)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:03 pm 
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I like it! :D

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