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 Carry on 'border waters'? 
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:31 am 
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johngagemn wrote:
Actually, that WI statute specifies "motorboat", so theoretically if you were in a canoe, kayak, rowboat, etc you should be OK.

Then again, I don't own a boat, tough I have been called a "motorboatin' S.O.B.". :lol:


Do you know the Wisconsin statues that say "motorboat"? Searching Wisconsin law is not very fun since they put every section in PDF.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:53 am 
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Try this: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/statelaws/2 ... consin.pdf

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:54 am 
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gyrfalcon wrote:
johngagemn wrote:
Actually, that WI statute specifies "motorboat", so theoretically if you were in a canoe, kayak, rowboat, etc you should be OK.

Then again, I don't own a boat, tough I have been called a "motorboatin' S.O.B.". :lol:


Do you know the Wisconsin statues that say "motorboat"? Searching Wisconsin law is not very fun since they put every section in PDF.


From page three of this thread:

bkrafft wrote:
According to <a href=http://www.legis.state.wi.us/LRB/pubs/wb/08wb16.pdf target=new>Wisonsin Briefs</a> from the Legislative Reference Bureau (page 5):
Quote:
Transportation of firearms. In general, possessing or transporting a firearm in a motor vehicle, motorboat, all-terrain vehicle, or air-craft is prohibited unless the gun is unloaded and in a carrying case. [ss. 167.31 (2) and (3), 23.33 (3) (e)] An unlawfully transported fire-arm is a public nuisance. [s. 29.927 (6g)]


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:15 pm 
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This appears to be the pertinent info:

Quote:
167.31 Safe use and transportation of firearms and
bows. (1) DEFINITIONS. In this section:
(a) “Aircraft” has the meaning given under s. 114.002 (3).
(b) “Encased” means enclosed in a case that is expressly made
for the purpose of containing a firearm and that is completely
zipped, snapped, buckled, tied or otherwise fastened with no part
of the firearm exposed.
(bg) “Family member of the landowner” means a person who
is related to the landowner as a parent, child, spouse, or sibling.
(bn) “Farm tractor” has the meaning given in s. 340.01 (16).
(c) “Firearm” means a weapon that acts by force of gunpowder.
(d) “Highway” has the meaning given under s. 340.01 (22).
(dm) “Implement of husbandry” has the meaning given in s.
340.01 (24).
(e) “Motorboat” has the meaning given under s. 30.50 (6).
(em) “Peace officer” has the meaning given in s. 939.22 (22).
(et) “Private security person” has the meaning given in s.
440.26 (1m) (h).
(f) “Roadway” has the meaning given under s. 340.01 (54).
(fm) “Street” means a highway that is within the corporate limits
of a city or village.
(fr) “Transmission facility” means any pipe, pipeline, duct,
wire, cable, line, conduit, pole, tower, equipment, or other structure
used to transmit or distribute electricity to or for the public or
to transmit or distribute communications or data to or from the
public.
(g) “Unloaded” means any of the following:
1. Having no shell or cartridge in the chamber of a firearm or
in the magazine attached to a firearm.
2. In the case of a cap lock muzzle−loading firearm, having
the cap removed.
3. In the case of a flint lock muzzle−loading firearm, having
the flashpan cleaned of powder.
(h) “Vehicle” has the meaning given in s. 340.01 (74), and
includes a snowmobile, as defined in s. 340.01 (58a), and an electric
personal assistive mobility device, as defined in s. 340.01
(15pm), except that for purposes of subs. (4) (c) and (cg) and (4m)“vehicle” has the meaning given for “motor vehicle” in s. 29.001
(57).
(2) PROHIBITIONS; MOTORBOATS AND VEHICLES; HIGHWAYS AND
ROADWAYS. (a) Except as provided in sub. (4), no person may
place, possess or transport a firearm, bow or crossbow in or on a
motorboat with the motor running, unless the firearm is unloaded
or unless the bow or crossbow is unstrung or is enclosed in a carrying
case.



and, under WI 30.50:

Quote:
(6) "Motorboat" means any boat equipped with propulsion machinery, whether or not the machinery is the principal source of propulsion.

30.50(7)
(7) "Nonmotorized boat" means a boat which is not a motorboat but which is designed and constructed to be used as a boat for transportation of a person or persons on water. This term includes, but is not limited to, any canoe, sailboat, inflatable boat or similar device, row boat, raft and dinghy which is not a motorboat.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:40 pm 
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Does anyone know who I might actually pay for this legal advice?

All this speculation is driving me crazy, I'm getting out my wallet.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:42 pm 
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Despite what you pay a lawyer for an opinion, it will still be an opinion until somebody gets busted for it and it is adjudicated.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:04 pm 
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I've kept a boat on the St. Croix since 1996. I spend the majority of my boating time on the St. Croix between Hudson, WI and Prescott, WI.

When I'm on the St. Croix, I don't carry. I don't even have my handgun on the boat. Purists will pillory me for this, but you don't understand what it means to be on the water.

Sure, if my engine dies just as I am encountering some mad, waterborne active shooter, I'm screwed... Otherwise, I'm pretty sure I could just motor away at high speed. I suppose the worst I would experience is some James Bond kind of boat chase.

I'll play those odds, if it's okay with you.

Conversely, I also do a lot of camping on the Upper Mississippi (above LD#2). This usually means I am going to be in one place, rather immobile, for a period of time, and as such, vulnerable.

I've been approached (while beached/camped) by other vessels at "unusual" hours of the night/morning asking for beer, directions,a cell phone or other items.

On these types of trips I carry. No question.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:39 pm 
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Dave Pendleton wrote:
Does anyone know who I might actually pay for this legal advice?

All this speculation is driving me crazy, I'm getting out my wallet.


Send me the check -- I'll find a good use for the money. Oh, a qualified opinion? No question at all: Brian Toder.

Just remember that his "opinion" carries no more force of law than mine (though it may be more accurate :)).

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:21 am 
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Dave Pendleton wrote:
Does anyone know who I might actually pay for this legal advice?

All this speculation is driving me crazy, I'm getting out my wallet.



My take on concurrent jurisdiction is fairly well founded.

Sec. 2. And be it further enacted, That the State of Minnesota shall have concurrent jurisdiction on the Mississippi and all other rivers and waters bordering on the said State of Minnesota, so far as the same shall form a common boundary to said state and any state or states now or hereafter to be formed or bounded by the same; and said river or waters leading into the same shall be common highways, and forever free, as well to the inhabitants of said state as to all other citizens of the United States, without any tax, duty, impost, or toll therefor. http://www.sos.state.mn.us/templates/pr ... p?page=646



<a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=QLq2AAAAIAAJ&dq=concurrent%20jurisdiction%20border%20waters%20mississippi&pg=RA1-PA959&ci=78,117,828,396&source=bookclip"><img src="http://books.google.com/books?id=QLq2AAAAIAAJ&pg=RA1-PA959&img=1&zoom=3&hl=en&sig=ACfU3U3FoyifY2KH-wuLzg5V_R5BqP5OEA&ci=78%2C117%2C828%2C396&edge=1" border="0" alt="Text not available"/></a><br/><a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=QLq2AAAAIAAJ&dq=concurrent%20jurisdiction%20border%20waters%20mississippi&pg=RA1-PA959&ci=78,117,828,396&source=bookclip">The Lawyers Reports Annotated By Robert Desty, Burdett Alberto Rich, Henry Philip Farnham, Edmund Hamilton Smith</a>

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:37 pm 
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Actually, gyrfalcon, I was being a little bit facetious; not disrespectful.

Thank you for the information.


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