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 Getting a permit from Florida 
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:11 pm 
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Thanks. I just looked it up.

It looks like it is actually in some ways better than the Florida laws even though it seemed worse at first.

In Florida, if some place finds out somehow that you're ccw'ing, they can ask you to leave, and if you don't, you can be charged with a 3rd degree felony.

From FL s. 810.09(c)
Quote:
If the offender is armed with a firearm or other dangerous weapon during the commission of the offense of trespass on property other than a structure or conveyance, he or she is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. Any owner or person authorized by the owner may, for prosecution purposes, take into custody and detain, in a reasonable manner, for a reasonable length of time, any person when he or she reasonably believes that a violation of this paragraph has been or is being committed, and that the person to be taken into custody and detained has committed or is committing the violation. If a person is taken into custody, a law enforcement officer shall be called as soon as is practicable after the person has been taken into custody. The taking into custody and detention in compliance with the requirements of this paragraph does not result in criminal or civil liability for false arrest, false imprisonment, or unlawful detention.


Apparently, here, like Florida, you're not breaking the law explicitly in any punishable way by carrying concealed in a posted establishment, but they can ask you to leave (just like in Florida). If you fail to leave, it's a petty misdemeanor punishable a first time by no more than a $25 fine.

From MN s. 624.714 Subd.17.
Quote:
Subd. 17.Posting; trespass.(a) A person carrying a firearm on or about his or her person or clothes under a permit or otherwise who remains at a private establishment knowing that the operator of the establishment or its agent has made a reasonable request that firearms not be brought into the establishment may be ordered to leave the premises. A person who fails to leave when so requested is guilty of a petty misdemeanor. The fine for a first offense must not exceed $25. Notwithstanding section 609.531, a firearm carried in violation of this subdivision is not subject to forfeiture.

(b) As used in this subdivision, the terms in this paragraph have the meanings given.

(1) "Reasonable request" means a request made under the following circumstances:

(i) the requester has prominently posted a conspicuous sign at every entrance to the establishment containing the following language: "(INDICATE IDENTITY OF OPERATOR) BANS GUNS IN THESE PREMISES."; or

(ii) the requester or the requester's agent personally informs the person that guns are prohibited in the premises and demands compliance.

(2) "Prominently" means readily visible and within four feet laterally of the entrance with the bottom of the sign at a height of four to six feet above the floor.

(3) "Conspicuous" means lettering in black arial typeface at least 1-1/2 inches in height against a bright contrasting background that is at least 187 square inches in area.

(4) "Private establishment" means a building, structure, or portion thereof that is owned, leased, controlled, or operated by a nongovernmental entity for a nongovernmental purpose.

(c) The owner or operator of a private establishment may not prohibit the lawful carry or possession of firearms in a parking facility or parking area.

(d) This subdivision does not apply to private residences. The lawful possessor of a private residence may prohibit firearms, and provide notice thereof, in any lawful manner.

(e) A landlord may not restrict the lawful carry or possession of firearms by tenants or their guests.

(f) Notwithstanding any inconsistent provisions in section 609.605, this subdivision sets forth the exclusive criteria to notify a permit holder when otherwise lawful firearm possession is not allowed in a private establishment and sets forth the exclusive penalty for such activity.

(g) This subdivision does not apply to:

(1) an active licensed peace officer; or

(2) a security guard acting in the course and scope of employment.


Now, obviously, this doesn't mean that should I get a permit I'll be carrying in posted places. I don't need trouble. I will, however, try to take my business elsewhere when possible.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:27 pm 
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LawGuy wrote:
Now, obviously, this doesn't mean that should I get a permit I'll be carrying in posted places.


Why not? In time you will find it extremely convenient. I happen to agree with not spending money in those establishments, but if you find yourself required to be in such America-hating stores, remember that the signage requirement is toothless. As has been said before, it is a feature, not a bug. Just leave when/if you are ever asked to, and life will go on it's merry way.

What the signs say:
JOHN SMITH BANS GUNS IN THESE PREMISES

What the signs mean:
JOHN SMITH BANS OPEN CARRY IN THESE PREMISES. THE STATE DOESN'T CARE EITHER WAY, BUT WILL WRITE YOU A TICKET AT JOHN SMITH'S INSISTANCE.

:D

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:01 pm 
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It's so cute when a new guy comes here and delivers a lecture on what we already know! ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:10 pm 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:
It's so cute when a new guy comes here and delivers a lecture on what we already know! ;)

:lol:

In all fairness, and to his credit, he did it be reading the law! That impressed me. He seems like a sharp character.

+1 though, to your quote! :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:18 pm 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:
It's so cute when a new guy comes here and delivers a lecture on what we already know! ;)


I didn't know the Florida felony bit. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:44 pm 
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Welcome LawGuy, you're certain to enjoy the company here.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:56 pm 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:
It's so cute when a new guy comes here and delivers a lecture on what we already know! ;)


No lecture. I just was posting what I learned for the sake of being corrected if my interpretation was wrong.

princewally wrote:
I didn't know the Florida felony bit.


Yep. Technically punishable by up to 5 years in Florida State Prison.

Carbide Insert wrote:
In all fairness, and to his credit, he did it be reading the law! That impressed me. He seems like a sharp character.


Thanks for the compliment. Reading the law is something I might as well get used to since I'll be doing a lot of it starting this fall when I start law school at UMN Law (the whole reason I'm moving here). :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:41 pm 
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Sorry if I came off snarky. I do like that you did the reading. Do yourself a great favor and pick up Joel's book: http://ellegon.com/features/data/orderingthebook/

It summarizes the statutes, as well as the case law that bring them to life (and sometimes turn them upside down). It's co-authored by a pretty savvy lawyer, Joe Olson, who in large part wrote the carry law.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:26 am 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:
Sorry if I came off snarky. I do like that you did the reading. Do yourself a great favor and pick up Joel's book: http://ellegon.com/features/data/orderingthebook/

It summarizes the statutes, as well as the case law that bring them to life (and sometimes turn them upside down). It's co-authored by a pretty savvy lawyer, Joe Olson, who in large part wrote the carry law.


So there IS a book? The last time I was here I went around to gun stores asking if there was a Minnesota gun law and carry law book that contains all the statutes I need to know and/or explanations. I was told no such book existed.

I'm glad to read that this is incorrect. Any place that's not terrible distance from the Twin Cities (all the suburbs are within range) that I can pick up a copy maybe today? I've got a Chevy Suburban up here (rental) and might as well use it. Then, the next time I'm up here, I'll take the required training course and have a head start by knowing the laws.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:30 am 
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Where in the Twin Cities are you?

The Burnsville Pistol Range usually has them. They are on the south side of the twin cities, just west of where 35W and 35E join back into 35.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:37 am 
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Check the linked page, it gives a way to have one mailed to you.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 6:42 am 
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Darn. I didn't get a chance to do it yesterday b/c I was apt hunting all day (finally settled on one just off of Loring Park). My new apt doesn't have a view of Loring park directly like I wanted, and there were complexes that did for the same price, but with the one I picked, I get more square footage for the price, a penthouse unit (nobody above me to annoy the heck out of me by stomping around) and a built in gas fireplace (my 2 cats will love curling up near it).

I was hoping to hit that range today and see if they had a copy of the book but they don't open until 10 AM and I have to have the rental car returned 30 minutes later at the airport, so it won't be possible this trip.

I'll just order one online to be sent to me when I get home. It should arrive before the next time I come out.

I'll probably be back out this way around the end up this month or early May for another few days (furnishing the apartment).... and then probably some time in the first half of May I'll drive myself, my cats, and my guns up from South Florida. The only part about the drive that freaks me out is that according to the GPS unit I have, the best route involves a nice 7 hour drive through IL. Driving through IL with 4 fully accessorized ARs (free-float barrel rail systems, pistol grips, forward grips, holo-sights on 2), over half a dozen Glocks, various other pistols such as 1911s, and other rifles (like .22lr) and about 200 various mags, most standard-cap (high-cap according to IL) freaks me out, even though it's legal under federal law as long as they're all encased, locked, inaccessible to immediate use) and not loaded. Maybe I'm overreacting though. Is all of IL to be feared, or just Chicago?

Maybe I can find an alternative route.

Anyways, time to check out of the hotel and head home.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:38 am 
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SultanOfBrunei wrote:
Where in the Twin Cities are you?

The Burnsville Pistol Range usually has them. They are on the south side of the twin cities, just west of where 35W and 35E join back into 35.
Yup. They were out, yesterday, but we fixed that.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:24 am 
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as long as you obey the speed limits and laws of the Republic of Illinios you should have no problem. Watch the speed limits in regards to what you are driving as they like to really hold you to the speeds listed, especially if you have out of state plates.
my retired parents avoid it with the RV when towing a car due to speed limits and lane requirements and will drive through Iowa instead.
i was chuckling reading this as 20/20 would make you a news story of your own for transporting an Arsenal

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:40 pm 
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Watch your speed limits in Wisconsin as well. With Florida plates, if you get stopped and your vehicle gets searched, you're looking at a hassle when they find your guns.
Driving through Missouri and Iowa doesn't sound so bad now, does it?


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