Index  •  FAQ  •  Search  

It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 5:04 am

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
 Good attorneys? 
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Good attorneys?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:40 am 
The Man
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am
Posts: 7970
Location: Minneapolis MN
phorvick wrote:
There is no evidence...none...nada..zilch...nill...that in any State that does not require a class, or at most a very basic class, have any statistical difference in the legal conduct of permit holders. None.
Absolutely. Which is why I'm in favor of going Alaska style -- and have been so, publicly, ever since there was an Alaska style.

There is, however, plenty of anecdotal evidence that bad instruction leads to bad results, some of the time; be kind of hard to get statistical data on it, as we'd have to come up with an academic schema for the definition of bad instruction.

As for me -- and I'm sure the same thing is true for you -- even if it could be proven that lazy, bad instruction is harmless, I'd still do my best to avoid it, and all the other shady practices, simply because it's, well, wrong.

_________________
Just a guy.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Good attorneys?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:44 am 
Forum Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:37 pm
Posts: 1571
Location: Detroit Lakes, MN
joelr wrote:
phorvick wrote:
There is no evidence...none...nada..zilch...nill...that in any State that does not require a class, or at most a very basic class, have any statistical difference in the legal conduct of permit holders. None.
Absolutely. Which is why I'm in favor of going Alaska style -- and have been so, publicly, ever since there was an Alaska style.

There is, however, plenty of anecdotal evidence that bad instruction leads to bad results, some of the time; be kind of hard to get statistical data on it, as we'd have to come up with an academic schema for the definition of bad instruction.

As for me -- and I'm sure the same thing is true for you -- even if it could be proven that lazy, bad instruction is harmless, I'd still do my best to avoid it, and all the other shady practices, simply because it's, well, wrong.
Well, I would shout out an AMEN to that also. I do believe (feel??) that no instruction is better than poor/erroneous instruction. Agreed.

I also think that we, as an instructing community, are a little too fast to chastize others unless or until there is a pattern built of of providing erroneous information etc. Books, handouts, lecture, power point etc etc. can be overwhelming and easy to misunderstand or forget content. I know that I get an occassional call like Joel's (where they ask clarification on my comment or handout) and I know for certain that it was covered extensively both orally and in handouts. It happens.

_________________
Paul Horvick
http://shootingsafely.com
---
Contact us to schedule a class for you and your friends, and check our website for more information http://shootingsafely.com


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:49 am 
The Man
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am
Posts: 7970
Location: Minneapolis MN
Oh, absolutely -- and that's part of why, when I hear, here, I didn't get this information from my instructor, I ask for the instructor's name. If it's occasional, well, no big deal -- people forget, from time to time, and it could be the instructor or the student.

But when there's the same stuff happening over and over again, I think the pattern is indicative.

I also ask for the name when somebody says that their instructor did a good job; it's good to know that then, too.

The only people who benefit from some improbable code of silence are those who engage in, well, shady practices.

_________________
Just a guy.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:59 am 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:14 pm
Posts: 203
When you are done with class, read the book.

Eat a sandwich

Read the book again

Take a nap

Look at parts of the book that you don't think you totally got

Kiss your wife

Read the book again

Keep critical information in your wallet

Look up any laws that you don't understand

Thank the book, tell it it's a good book, then read it again

Carry your firearm


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:20 am 
Journeyman Member

Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:53 pm
Posts: 74
Location: Up Nort'
i took my refresher course this past fall in Brainerd and it was well presented. a shorter class due to being a refresher but with two instructors there, any questions were answered quickly so we could move along. They gave us The Book to cover some of the info and then take home with us.
excellent class and gave us the recommendation to make sure we have the number for an atourney but gave no numbers themselves probably because we came from all over central minnesota for this class.

As to the Book it sat by the toilet :) so i could read it without the kids interferrupting. It helped to clarify points of carry and the reluctant participant that i did not know about. It may not be gospel but it sure is nice to have a book that explains the law more clearly because reading the law itself gets confusing to us average Daves.

_________________
"A cubicle is nothing more than a padded cell without a door"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:27 pm 
1911 tainted
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:47 pm
Posts: 3045
I guess I am on the fence about directly recommending an attorney. I do have a stack of 4" by 11" sheets with 6 attorney's listed on them, but at the bottom I also have a disclaimer that they are not affiliated or directly recommended by River Valley Training. I do explain that they are practicing attorney's that are familiar in this area of the law. I don't know if Joel remembers, but it was the list I pulled out of my wallet when I was sitting in on his class and he asked if anyone had an attorney's number in their wallet.

I don't like to directly recommend attorneys, handguns, holsters and modes of carry, every persons needs are different, so I present the information and let them decide. Now I will help a student find more information, maybe give them a positive direction, but to flat out recommend, that I do not care to do.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:55 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am
Posts: 6767
Location: Twin Cities
Some things are subjective, and some are objective.

Different guns will fit different people differently, but if you have a legal issue relating to guns, I am convinced that there are no two ways about it: you will be in good hands with David, Marc, Jeff or Brian.

So I recommend them.

_________________
* NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:29 am 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am
Posts: 2444
Location: West Central MN
The reality of "gun Law", is that there are relatively few cases. I practiced law for 15 years in a 2 person law firm. We did criminal defense including public defense, along with just about everyting else that happens in a small town.

I don't ever remember a "gun law case", probably because no one every brought us such a case. It's not like DUI or divorce or collections, or injury cases. There are not very many cases statewide, and so, most lawyers are not excited about learning how to be a gun law guru. This is not a profitable field of law practice, because clients don't win money awards or have attorney fees paid by insurance companies.

The lawyers listed here could easily handle every gun case in Minnesota. It is sort of amusing when people talk about searching for "good' gun law lawyers. All lawyers can read the gun laws, most won't even be interested.

If you want a "good" "gun law" lawyer in Minnesota, and if your definition of "good" means prior SUCCESSFUL experience with your kind of case, this is the list. I'd bet our list of attorneys includes just about every "good" gun law attorney who is willing to accept these cases.

So, it's easy to find that special lawyer. Just call somebody on the list. Don't waste time trying to reinvent it. Call someone.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours


 Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 34 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


 
Index  |  FAQ  |  Search

phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group