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 Valley Fair Update: Two Perps Plead Out 
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:54 am 
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Prosecutors say the fight began when one of the suspects harassed and assaulted the victim's 15-year-old daughter. The man was attacked as he stepped in to intervene.


So a six-on-one beatdown is called a "fight" now? good thing we have the Star Tribune.

Or, wait:

Quote:
The fact is that it was not a groping, but rather a tap on the head with an inflatable baseball bat; yes it was done in a lewd manner, but other than the toy touching the girl there was no contact. The father then initiated the fracas by grabbing the offending id10t in a headlock and starts to punch, said id10t.


Was this in the police report? I thought the initial story is that one of the thugs grabbed the girl's butt.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:16 am 
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But we have to change the story to make it look like the police and DA's did their job. Truth is such an outdated principle. What matters is that everybody in those young men's gang gets the message that everything is okay. It is for the children.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:19 am 
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Selurcspi wrote:
While the individuals who plead out were indeed gangbangers, we should be careful as to how we speculate on the status of the father. Yes he was protecting his daughter, however the reports exaggerated (fancy that, I can barely believe it) what he was protecting her from. The fact is that it was not a groping, but rather a tap on the head with an inflatable baseball bat; yes it was done in a lewd manner, but other than the toy touching the girl there was no contact. The father then initiated the fracas by grabbing the offending id10t in a headlock and starts to punch, said id10t. I think at this point had you seen the event you would admit that the father was not a "Reluctant Participant". I'm not saying this to justifying the stomping, but we must establish the facts of a given case before we go overboard in our speculation on what happened and what we would do in that mythical situation!


Do you have a source for this info? This version of events is not one I have read previously in any medium. If it is accurate, it may offer insight into what not to do, but in no way midigates the clan's response or the lack of appropriate charges these slugs were allowed to plead down to.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:50 am 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:
Quote:
The fact is that it was not a groping, but rather a tap on the head with an inflatable baseball bat; yes it was done in a lewd manner, but other than the toy touching the girl there was no contact. The father then initiated the fracas by grabbing the offending id10t in a headlock and starts to punch, said id10t.


Was this in the police report? I thought the initial story is that one of the thugs grabbed the girl's butt.


I don't know about the police report, but the VF security staffmember at the scene that saw it go down and called for help had it in his report, as I am told by a member of VF security who I trust sufficiently to shoot past me to take out a bad guy who might possibly be holding me!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:46 pm 
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joler
Thanks for the update-- I hope the dad/family is OK--

Some justice!!!

So anyone think that calls into Dakota County (?) DA office would help for the rest of the gang? Sounds like someone really missed the chance to put some scum away for a few years--

Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Sorry, but does anyone else wish the Lord would let them help Him sometimes?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:36 am 
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lance22 wrote:
... It just goes to show that not only will 'security' not protect you, but 'the system' ....


I am not sure much blame can be put on the security guards. They are not cops, probably no training except for report writing and use of radio and VF probably has a policy instructing them to call for help and watch events unfold. Just guessing.

I was watching MSNBC last night regarding teen girls being kidnapped in the USA and being put into prostitution / slavery by pimps. This one girl went missing for 10 days or so, the dad found the house where she was being held, cops called multiple times with no response. After an hour the father went banging on the door to get his kid back. Long story short, the father was charged for breaking and entering (later dropped) after almost being killed in the front yard by a group with bricks and tire irons. I have no faith in the 'system' and things seem to be getting worse.

I heard somewhere (cannot recall where) that because of the economy, criminals will be getting lighter sentences because we cannot afford to keep as many of them locked up. Anyone else hear this?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:46 am 
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kpaul wrote:
Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.


Bah! Misquoted.

It supposed to read:

"Vengeance is fine, saith the Lord."

:)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:16 pm 
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tepin wrote:
I am not sure much blame can be put on the security guards. They are not cops, probably no training except for report writing and use of radio and VF probably has a policy instructing them to call for help and watch events unfold. Just guessing.


That basically speaks to the heart of the problem. If you're not going to be providing ACTUAL security, then don't take away the ability of citizens to provide their own ACTUAL security.

One could very reasonably argue that, since when seconds count, the police are only minutes away, that this applies towards our police force/legal system as well.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:33 pm 
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kecker wrote:
One could very reasonably argue that, since when seconds count, the police are only minutes away, that this applies towards our police force/legal system as well.

That, and the fact that they dont, legally, have to respond at all!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:37 pm 
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This is why VF needs to be sued. In addition to the attackers and their parents.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:01 pm 
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I believe that VF security has been trained in the use of ASP batons-- I think I saw them carrying last time I was there-- I am not sure if the scum had guns or not and while it's not a good idea to bring a baton to a gun fight you would hope that security would have done something besides just filling out a IR and calling PD-- It would be interesting what their use of force policy/force continuum is and or if it has been changed--Maybe their security needs more training (IMHO ALL security needs more training) and or maybe some of them should be armed--

Anyway I think I will avoid VF as much as Mexico in the near future—

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:27 pm 
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I think you're over reacting saying you'll avoid Valley Fair. You just need to be aware no matter where you go. Over all Valley Fair is a safe facility.

Mexico on the other hand is a good place to avoid,



kpaul wrote:
I believe that VF security has been trained in the use of ASP batons-- I think I saw them carrying last time I was there-- I am not sure if the scum had guns or not and while it's not a good idea to bring a baton to a gun fight you would hope that security would have done something besides just filling out a IR and calling PD-- It would be interesting what their use of force policy/force continuum is and or if it has been changed--Maybe their security needs more training (IMHO ALL security needs more training) and or maybe some of them should be armed--

Anyway I think I will avoid VF as much as Mexico in the near future—


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:21 am 
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JimC wrote:
I think you're over reacting saying you'll avoid Valley Fair. You just need to be aware no matter where you go. Over all Valley Fair is a safe facility.
I think that's about right. I'm not fond of victim disarmament zones, all in all, but . . .

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:47 am 
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tepin wrote:
This is why VF needs to be sued. In addition to the attackers and their parents.


Just a note on where VF security was. There was an individual from security (albeit, not physical security) who saw it all go down, this individual used the radio to scramble the security department to the area; however as we are all too familiar with, by the time they arrived it was all over, except for the rounding up of the stompers. Shakopee PD arrived even later, due to the normal communications and distance lag.
The Monday morning quarter backs around here are setting themselves up for a big disappointment if they think something like this is actionable if it happens to you. You might be able to sue the "stompers" as long as you are not, as was in this case, the original aggressor. The main thing we should learn from this incident is that when it goes down, it goes down fast and if you’re not prepared for it, you will be overtaken by the situation. Someone once said, “If you don’t have the gun in your hand when it starts, you won’t have the gun in your hand when it ends”. So preparation and situational awareness are the keys to survival.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:22 am 
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Selurcspi wrote:
Shakopee PD arrived even later, due to the normal communications and distance lag.


From what I've been told, the distance lag wasn't much. There were cops in the park at the time.

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