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Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive • View topic - Car Searches...A general question
 
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 Car Searches...A general question 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:53 pm 
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atripp wrote:
you can at anytime say "Officer I retract my consent to search my car".


"I'm sorry, did you say something to me? I didn't hear it...."


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:07 pm 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:
johnnyg08 wrote:
isn't it something called "search incident to arrest" if the officers are going to remove you from your vehicle and tow it, they have to take inventory of what is in the car.


No. A search incident to arrest is limited to a search for weapons on or near your person, so that the arrest can be effected safely. It does not permit extensive searching.


I'm sure this has been posted once before, never hurts to post it again!

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 Post subject: Inventory Searches
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:20 pm 
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Inventory searches are legal and are not incident to arrest. Don't take my word for it though... read the case yourself....

South Dakota v. Opperman, 428 U.S. 364 (1976). There's MANY cases that follow from that decision.

Enjoy-
Bryan


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:32 pm 
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kimberman wrote:
Never, ever consent to any search whatever reason they give.

If they HAVE authority, they'll search anyway. Once you "consent" all your constitutional rights against an illegal search go out the window. BTW, IIRC, an inventory search cannot go into locked storage devices, such as a briefcase. They are supposed to just put "1 black briefcase, locked" on the inventory and take the briefcase into custody.

Don't talk to them, just say "I want a lawyer and I do not consent to any searches."


Very niiiice! I like it.

One follow-up question: what if the locked storage device is a bolted down safe? Is taking the vehicle into the impound lot the same as taking the safe into custody?

I'm personally wondering about the level of security that could be offered by a locked DVR/audio recorder in case an officer decides to go "Kuehnlein" on me?

Also, does anyone know a good local locksmith that can re-key a mobile gun safe with Medeco locks? Within the last week or so I've had compelling reason to lose faith in the standard tubular locks.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:03 am 
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Binky .357 wrote:
...Also, does anyone know a good local locksmith that can re-key a mobile gun safe with Medeco locks? Within the last week or so I've had compelling reason to lose faith in the standard tubular locks.


Care to explain a bit more? I always like to hear new and interesting stories! Tubular locks are not picked easily using conventional tools. If you do get a Medeco make sure it has an anti-bump keying feature. I've been impressed with the Kwikiset Smartkey locks sold at homedepot/menards.

<object width="640" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/D1LH7lrftKA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/D1LH7lrftKA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="505"></embed></object>


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:55 am 
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gyrfalcon wrote:
Binky .357 wrote:
I've had compelling reason to lose faith in the standard tubular locks.


Care to explain a bit more? I always like to hear new and interesting stories! Tubular locks are not picked easily using conventional tools.

Well, Bic pens aren't exactly conventional:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:20 am 
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Arizona v. Gant (Supreme Court, April 21, 2009)

Quote:
After Rodney Gant was arrested for driving with a suspended license, handcuffed, and locked in the back of a patrol car, police officers searched his car and discovered cocaine in the pocket of a jacket on the backseat. Because Gant could not have accessed his car to retrieve weapons or evidence at the time of the search, the Arizona Supreme Court held that the search-incident-to-arrest exception to the Fourth Amendment ’s warrant requirement, as defined in Chimel v. California, 395 U. S. 752 (1969) , and applied to vehicle searches in New York v. Belton, 453 U. S. 454 (1981) , did not justify the search in this case. We agree with that conclusion.

Under Chimel, police may search incident to arrest only the space within an arrestee’s “ ‘immediate control,’ ” meaning “the area from within which he might gain possession of a weapon or destructible evidence.” 395 U. S., at 763. The safety and evidentiary justifications underlying Chimel’s reaching-distance rule determine Belton’s scope. Accordingly, we hold that Belton does not authorize a vehicle search incident to a recent occupant’s arrest after the arrestee has been secured and cannot access the interior of the vehicle. Consistent with the holding in Thornton v. United States, 541 U. S. 615 (2004) ***, we also conclude that circumstances unique to the automobile context justify a search incident to arrest when it is reasonable to believe that evidence of the [specific] offense of arrest might be found in the vehicle.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:51 am 
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Thanks Kimberman...this is great stuff. So many people unknowingly waive their constitutional rights when dealing with LE


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:24 pm 
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DeanC wrote:
gyrfalcon wrote:
Binky .357 wrote:
I've had compelling reason to lose faith in the standard tubular locks.


Care to explain a bit more? I always like to hear new and interesting stories! Tubular locks are not picked easily using conventional tools.

Well, Bic pens aren't exactly conventional:...


That's a cheap tubular lock that's probably made in China to extremely wide tolerances. I was talking about a tubular lock like the Ace II that have very tight tolerances and use and a variety of security pins.

Kryptonite has switched its locks to the AceII because of the video and fallout from the bic pen picking you just posted.


From BusinessWire.com:

September 17, 2004 06:09 PM US Eastern Timezone

Kryptonite Offering Free Upgrade Worldwide for Consumers' High End Tubular Cyliner Locks; Unprecedented Offer Intended to Address the Needs of Loyal Consumers

CANTON, Mass.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Sept. 17, 2004--Kryptonite today announced it will provide free product upgrades for certain locks purchased since September 2002, in response to consumer concerns about tubular cylinder lock technology. Consumers can visit the company's Website (www.kryptonitelock.com ) on Wednesday afternoon, September 22, 2004, to learn how they can participate in the security upgrade program.

Consumers who have purchased an Evolution lock, KryptoLok lock, New York Chain, New York Noose, Evolution Disc Lock, KryptoDisco or DFS Disc Lock in the last two years are eligible for a product upgrade free of charge from Kryptonite. Customers will need to have either registered their key number, registered for the Kryptonite anti-theft protection offer or have proof of purchase to qualify.

Specifically, Kryptonite will provide for free cross bars featuring the company's new disc-style cylinder lock technology to consumers who have purchased Evolution and KryptoLok series products. In addition the company will replace for free recently purchased Evolution Disc Locks on New York Chain and New York Noose with its "Molly Lock", a heavy duty solid steel padlock. Kryptonite also will upgrade recently purchased disc locks.

Consumers who have had one of the Kryptonite locks mentioned with a tubular cylinder for longer than two years will be eligible for a sizeable rebate on the upgraded products. This program will be administered through Kryptonite dealers and distributors.

A distributor and dealer swap program will be rolled out through direct communication from Kryptonite to all its partners.

Full details about this unprecedented program will be available on Kryptonite's website by afternoon Eastern Standard Time, Wednesday, September 22, 2004, at www.kryptonite.com

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:46 pm 
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gyrfalcon wrote:
Andrew Rothman wrote:
johnnyg08 wrote:
isn't it something called "search incident to arrest" if the officers are going to remove you from your vehicle and tow it, they have to take inventory of what is in the car.


No. A search incident to arrest is limited to a search for weapons on or near your person, so that the arrest can be effected safely. It does not permit extensive searching.


I'm sure this has been posted once before, never hurts to post it again!

<object width="640" height="320"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/i8z7NC5sgik&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/i8z7NC5sgik&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="320"></embed></object>

<object width="640" height="5320"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/08fZQWjDVKE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/08fZQWjDVKE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="320"></embed></object>


great videos...thx for posting


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:57 pm 
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I recently acquired a few locksmithing tools, among them a seven-pin tubular lock pick. On my first attempt with this tool (after a long day of work and fatigue=shaky muscles) I was able to breeze through opening a lock within five seconds of seating the pick. We re-locked the safe and tried it again. Same results, it's as if I had the actual key for the lock. Tried a different lock. Same results again.

My friend tried the same locks. Within seconds he was able to breeze through them like a pro.

Granted, this was one of the "cheap chinese locks" we were dealing with, but if we (two work weary and slightly beer-buzzed) amateurs could breeze through such an unfamiliar process with such ease, then I have no doubt some of the higher skilled officers would not be tripped up in the least by the higher security spool pin and mushroom pin drivers on any standard pin-tumbler lock.

As for the Medeco Biaxials and the sucess some have had while picking; if there's even one master key pinned key in the cylinder, you've increased the odds of sucessful picking. If there are several (or all) pins keyed for a master key, your odds of success just went up exponentially.

I want as much security from unauthorized access as is humanly possilbe.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:22 pm 
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gyrfalcon wrote:
If you do get a Medeco make sure it has an anti-bump keying feature. I've been impressed with the Kwikiset Smartkey locks sold at homedepot/menards.


The smartkey/smartcode locks are on sale at menard's this week.

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