Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 483

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112

Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/content/99/5061499/html/domains/twincitiescarry/forum/includes/bbcode.php on line 112
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 3824: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/bbcode.php:483)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 3826: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/bbcode.php:483)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 3827: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/bbcode.php:483)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Notice: in file /includes/functions.php on line 3828: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /includes/bbcode.php:483)
Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive • View topic - Washington 250,000 / Mn. 60,000 =4x # of permits Why ???
 
  Index  •  FAQ  •  Search  

It is currently Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:28 am

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 Washington 250,000 / Mn. 60,000 =4x # of permits Why ??? 
Author Message
 Post subject: Washington 250,000 / Mn. 60,000 =4x # of permits Why ???
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:23 am 
Senior Member

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:03 am
Posts: 227
Washington 250,000 / Mn. 60,000 =4x # of permits Why ???

This is puzzeling

I assume

Rural = Conservative
Urban = Lib

and that the demographics of Washington State and MN would be similar

Half urban / half rural.

Why then do they have 4x as many permit holders as Minnesota?

Did they have a 10 year headstart in issuing permits?

We're just over 1 percent of the population ...they are close to 5% of the population.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:50 am 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:52 pm
Posts: 826
Location: MN
I think it's because MN has more "Bliss Ninnies" per capita than most other places. They see no "Need" to carry a gun as they go blissfully unaware about their business.

If the crime rate were to get more like Arizona, Florida or Texas I'm sure the number of permits would go much higher.

_________________
Ron
NRA Life Member
USS Bristol DD857
_________________________

If life was fair, Robins couldn't eat worms...


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:18 am 
Raving Moderate
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:46 pm
Posts: 1292
Location: Minneapolis
IIRC, Washington also requires no training or certification to get a permit, thus making it easier and cheaper to do so.

_________________
I'm liberal, pro-choice, and I carry a gun. Any questions?

My real name is Jeremiah (go figure). ;)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:26 am 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:13 pm
Posts: 1743
Location: Lakeville
Also, a lot of our rural areas are full of socialists.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:30 am 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:13 pm
Posts: 282
Location: east central mn
MN hasn't been invaded by Kalifornistan!!!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:13 am 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:36 pm
Posts: 144
Quote:
IIRC, Washington also requires no training or certification to get a permit, thus making it easier and cheaper to do so.

This. Even though I believe the MN system is good - [I think] it's just too expensive for many people.

_________________
Midwest Marksman
Wisconsin Shooters (USPSA, 3-Gun, IDPA)
MADFI Certified Instructor (#60)


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:55 am 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:37 pm
Posts: 1757
Location: Whittier
I think Jeremiah is probably right. PA has 525,600 permit holders and the PA permit is outstandingly easy to get. If you print out the application at home and fill it out, you can be out of the Sheriff's office with a new permit inside 20 minutes, it'd only take longer if you filled out the form there. They do their backgroung check, you give them your $20 and they take your picture and print your permit. Of course in PA the permit is to carry concealed. If you intend to open carry you need no permit, though I got the sense out there that a lot of people get the concealed permit just so they don't have to worry about inadvertantly covering their weapon and being "concealed without a permit" . . . . of course this is what made the "Open Carry Momma" story about six months ago so whacked. The momma was open carrying which would be legal permit or not and the Anti-Sheriff was trying to revoke her concealed permit which would have only kept her from carrying concealed . . . she would have HAD to open carry then, as a Sheriff in PA can't revoke a person's right to open carry (though a person can loose firearms rights in the normal ways described on a 4473) Anyway, 20 minutes and $20 and there are 525,600 permit holders in PA.

Did ya'll know there is one county in Alabama that has more pistol permits than we have in our state: 62,000 in Jefferson Co.

_________________
Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a
lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become
a law unto himself; it invites anarchy .” Olmstead v. U.S., 277 U.S. 438


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:52 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:52 pm
Posts: 826
Location: MN
I didn't think of the cost before I posted earlier. It makes a lot of sense. MN is one of the more expensive states to get a carry permit in.

_________________
Ron
NRA Life Member
USS Bristol DD857
_________________________

If life was fair, Robins couldn't eat worms...


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:54 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am
Posts: 6767
Location: Twin Cities
Makes sense. WA total cost: $60. MN total cost: $160 (rare) to $200 or more.

_________________
* NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:10 pm 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:20 am
Posts: 1317
Location: Racine, MN
SultanOfBrunei wrote:
Also, a lot of our rural areas are full of socialists.


Not true. Most of the socialists live in the larger cities. Those of us in the rural areas are very self sufficient and want less government. We also get very little money back from the government.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:10 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:37 pm
Posts: 1757
Location: Whittier
Gotta say, I liked the look of the PA permit better too: Image

Lots of info & designed to be used independantly of other state ID. I liked that it was an additional picture ID.

Anyway, one of my favorite soap boxes IS the cost issue, but I don't think the Carry Permit instructors should lowwer their fees. I think the state (Sheriffs offices) are charging too much. I think the government's take should be capped at $20. The weakness of the PA system was that no trainign was required . . .. The weakness of the MN system is that it costs about double what it should (out the door). Barring that, there should be some kind of financial need waiver for permit fees. If an individual instructor wants to waive or lowwer a fee for a individual under financial strain, they should certainly have the liberty, but not the obligation to do so. Instructors are offering an actual product in the form of intellectual property. The Sheriff is merely providing a permit for an individual to exercise a right. I believe a lot of the sheriff's fees are set high for the expressed purpose of establishing the right to self defense as a privilege of the well off. Here in MN I get the sense that they'd prefer that only the wealthy carried.

_________________
Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a
lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become
a law unto himself; it invites anarchy .” Olmstead v. U.S., 277 U.S. 438


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:20 am 
On time out
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:18 pm
Posts: 1689
Location: 35 W and Hiway 10
Frankly I think it should be a written test like the drivers permit test. It should cost no more than the real cost to administer it, maybe $20 tops, you takes your permit test, and pass, then pass the background and your done. if you want require the DNR hunter safety program for those of the correct age.

PERIOD.

I don't like having to pay someone a few hundred dollars to get my kids a drivers ed training, when I can do it myself, I do not want to pay someone a hundred or more dollars for me to exercise MY right to self defense. I think the training aspect here is highly overrated. Vermont, and the other no training states do not have an appreciably higher rate of permitted people screwing up. (I know Vt does not have a permit, but it has people permitted/allowed under the law to carry)

I think if you had a written test for the law coverage, and then an instant permit, you would have no more or less incidents than you have with class room taught P2C individuals.

_________________
molan labe


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:03 am 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:24 pm
Posts: 471
Location: 12 miles east of Lake Wobegon
Macx wrote:
I don't think cutting costs on the instructor end of things is the way to go. I'd much rather angle towards Sheriff's volunteering to lowwer their fees to state min. or at least that dirrection. 624.714 Subd. 3 (f)
Quote:
The sheriff may charge a new application processing fee in an amount not to exceed the actual and reasonable direct cost of processing the application or $100, whichever is less. Of this amount, $10 must be submitted to the commissioner and deposited into the general fund.
$10 for the general fund and. . .. assuming non-sworn office staff make $20 and hour and it shouldn't take more than a 1/2 hour to make the NICS check and call DHS . . . $10 is reasonable actual, honest direct cost of processing. Call it $25 to cover the laminated card and postage.

How many of us are active in the election of Sheriffs? Maybe a commitment to serving the whole population with equal access to second amendment rights should be something someone could get elected on. . . or perhaps a commitment to protecting the upper classes' monopoly on 2A rights would be something that could get a Sheriff "un-elected".


I believe that many if not most of them re-run the checks annually. Given that some individual cases legitimately require more effort, either because someone named John Anderson or Peter Smith applied or in dealing with the appeal of a good-faith denial, I don't think the fees exceed the costs to any great degree. The premise that applicants should shoulder the cost of a permit required to exercise a constitutionally-guaranteed right, well, that's another matter.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:05 am 
Senior Member

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:55 am
Posts: 151
I think the classroom instruction does offer value. I don't know that I'd advocate eliminating it entirely. It would just be nice if the overall cost (classroom, range, application fee) would be less. I do understand the economic model that folks have used to describe why instructor-led courses cost as much as they do and I'm not disparaging that, but there are definitely ways to conduct the training with less cost. The idea above about using community education is a good one. Another thing to consider is that youth firearms safety training and youth snowmobile safety training are courses offered with just a nominal fee, primarily because many of the people coordinating the classes and teaching them are volunteers. The facilities are also typically donated or provided at reduced fees because of the 'community value' perceived by the training. Too bad the larger community doesn't find P2C training valuable in the same light. Yes, I know "those are youth courses", but it's the same idea.

The primary way to reduce costs that should be getting pushed is the sheriff's fees. They don't need $100 per application. If their 'true costs' approach that amount for doing a background check and some paperwork then their organization is so bloated that you have to wonder how much money is being wasted by the organization overall doing their normal job functions? Government a bit big and bloated, is it?

BB


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:09 am 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:24 pm
Posts: 471
Location: 12 miles east of Lake Wobegon
Wasn't part of the reason for the strong training requirement to be sure there would be good reciprocity?... never mind..


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours


 Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


 
Index  |  FAQ  |  Search

phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group