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Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive • View topic - Employee handbook gun rules; does this violate the 2nd?
 
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 Employee handbook gun rules; does this violate the 2nd? 
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 12:17 am 
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624.714 CARRYING OF WEAPONS WITHOUT PERMIT; PENALTIES.

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Subd. 1b.Display of permit; penalty.(a) The holder of a permit to carry must have the permit card and a driver's license, state identification card, or other government-issued photo identification in immediate possession at all times when carrying a pistol and must display the permit card and identification document upon lawful demand by a peace officer, as defined in section 626.84, subdivision 1. A violation of this paragraph is a petty misdemeanor. The fine for a first offense must not exceed $25. Notwithstanding section 609.531, a firearm carried in violation of this paragraph is not subject to forfeiture.

(b) A citation issued for violating paragraph (a) must be dismissed if the person demonstrates, in court or in the office of the arresting officer, that the person was authorized to carry the pistol at the time of the alleged violation.

(c) Upon the request of a peace officer, a permit holder must write a sample signature in the officer's presence to aid in verifying the person's identity.

(d) Upon the request of a peace officer, a permit holder shall disclose to the officer whether or not the permit holder is currently carrying a firearm.

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 5:38 am 
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Yup; pretty clear.

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 7:12 pm 
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gyrfalcon wrote:
Do you actually have to admit to an officer that you're carrying a weapon? I thought all you needed to do is turn over your permit card and state identification.


(d) Upon the request of a peace officer, a permit holder shall disclose to the officer whether or not the permit holder is currently carrying a firearm.


This should have been covered in your carry class -- it's pretty important. :)

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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 8:21 pm 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:
This should have been covered in your carry class -- it's pretty important. :)

It's one of the two legal obligations that obtaining a carry permit imposes on you.

Generally speaking, if you have a carry permit, but don't carrying a gun, the law imposes exactly the same obligations on you as it does on anyone else. The two exceptions are: 1, you're required to inform the issuing sheriff if you move. 2. You are required to tell a peace officer whether you're carrying a gun or not, if asked.

As far as I can see, all the other legal issues apply only if you're carrying a gun.


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 9:45 pm 
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I've given some thought to this lately, even though I do not carry at work.

I have decided for now that if my employer wanted to search me, I likely would submit to a limited search of my person (definitely no cavity checks, disrobing, etc.) and my car, if demanded. If law enforcement were present, I would say "I consent to a search by the company, but I do not consent to a police search, nor a search in their presence." I keep thinking of that video and Kimberman's warnings not to consent to a law enforcement search ever.

Would this get me fired? I don't know.

Would I have the guts to refuse a police search, even if it cost me my job? I'd like to think so, but I don't know.

Is this a sensible response? I don't know. It seems to be the best balance I could come up with for my situation. I am certainly open to comments.


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 11:46 pm 
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What do you do that your employer would even think of searching you? Do you work at a casino?

Other than employee theft, I can see no reason that an employer would ask for a search.

The employer guidelines that I am familiar with are all non-confrontational. I think it is much more likely that they would just ask you to leave the work site and not try to search you.

I would tell them to take a flying leap, if I were ordered by my employer to submit to a search. Well, maybe I'd be a bit more polite...

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 6:40 am 
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tman065 wrote:

I would tell them to take a flying leap, if I were ordered by my employer to submit to a search. Well, maybe I'd be a bit more polite...


Being that your employer IS the police, would that be refusing a police search?

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:43 am 
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if you don't cooperate w/ the police investigation if you're a cop, you'll likely be reprimanded and probably terminated...disagree?


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johnnyg08 wrote:
if you don't cooperate w/ the police investigation if you're a cop, you'll likely be reprimanded and probably terminated...disagree?

No, you'll just get paid administrative leave until the whole flap blows over. It could take years.

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 9:50 am 
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Jeremiah wrote:
tman065 wrote:

I would tell them to take a flying leap, if I were ordered by my employer to submit to a search. Well, maybe I'd be a bit more polite...


Being that your employer IS the police, would that be refusing a police search?


Well, I was speaking generically about employment. I certainly would not give up my right to be secure in any case. I also don't plan on being involved in a situation at work where someone thinks I stole something, either.

(I will make sure no one sees me :twisted: )

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:42 pm 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:
This should have been covered in your carry class -- it's pretty important. :)


It was, but I had stayed up the entire night and had a few drinks before submitting that reply. If I was thinking at all, I was thinking more of the Constitution than permit to carry law.

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:08 pm 
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tman065 wrote:
...I also don't plan on being involved in a situation at work where someone thinks I stole something, either.

(I will make sure no one sees me :twisted: )


Ah, that's the kind of service-oriented policing we like to see around these parts... :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:11 pm 
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Please note the blue text for sarcasm. I'm sure all the regulars got it but just in case ... ;-)

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:18 pm 
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plblark wrote:
Please note the blue text for sarcasm. I'm sure all the regulars got it but just in case ... ;-)


Yep. What Plblark said. To quote a magician acquaintance of mine: "See, folks, this here's 'humor'. Invented by the Greeks..." :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 11:05 pm 
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plblark wrote:
Please note the blue text for sarcasm. I'm sure all the regulars got it but just in case ... ;-)


TY for saying what I shoulda.

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