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"Coconut Charlie" debate
http://twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12825		 Page 14 of 15
Author:  joelr [ Mon May 25, 2009 7:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah, I'm familiar with them.

Dave's a nice guy, and I think I've met his partner once or twice, who seemed okay, and we've been friendly, but I guess that ends here, alas: he's one of the folks who sells those stupid Carry Permit Holder badges, and when I've suggested to him that I think that's a galactically stupid idea, he said, and I quote, "Oh, all the cops I talk to want people to have them."

I'm talking about these preposterously bad ideas:

Image
Honest. That's what he said. I wasn't the only person in the room, and he's said that more than once.

Better than Penaz? I wouldn't be surprised,
Author:  Dick Unger [ Mon May 25, 2009 7:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Remember the 2003 law? Where instructors could not simply self-certify themselves like now?

I wonder when we'll change again.....
Author:  joelr [ Mon May 25, 2009 7:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dick Unger wrote:
Remember the 2003 law? Where instructors could not simply self-certify themselves like now?

I wonder when we'll change again.....
Well, they can't -- their instructor organizations certify them, and the orgs have to be certified by the BCA.

To quote <a href=planecents.net ref="nofollow">Mango Joe</a>: "We all do great jobs of training. We have to or the BCA would pull us from the list of instructors."

I disagree.
Author:  tepin [ Mon May 25, 2009 8:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dont ask me to cite it but I am sure I read some place you can shoot someone running away if you believe they are in retreat in order to gain "higher ground" e.g. that shotgun in the car and resume the attack. Of course, you better be able to prove it too. :idea:
gyrfalcon wrote:
...I think it's asinine of you to suggest that the laws don't matter. The laws are what allow you to LEGALLY carry a weapon in the first place. Everyone has a different view of what's morally exceptable. Maybe you think it's morally exceptable to shoot someone in the back when they're running to their car to grab a shotgun.
Author:  gyrfalcon [ Mon May 25, 2009 8:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
joelr wrote:
Yeah, I'm familiar with them.

Dave's a nice guy, and I think I've met his partner once or twice, who seemed okay, and we've been friendly, but I guess that ends here, alas: he's one of the folks who sells those stupid Carry Permit Holder badges, and when I've suggested to him that I think that's a galactically stupid idea, he said, and I quote, "Oh, all the cops I talk to want people to have them."...


Yeah the badges are not a good idea, if I'm not mistaken some police departments don't even allow officers to carry them off duty.
Author:  jaysong [ Mon May 25, 2009 9:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
CCW badges are a class B misdemeanor in Utah.
Author:  MostlyHarmless [ Mon May 25, 2009 9:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
www.icanhazbahdges.com
Author:  mrokern [ Mon May 25, 2009 9:59 pm ]
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A few months ago (for sheer amusement) I asked a friend of mine who is a HCSO deputy for his opinion on the badges, and showed him a pic of them on my computer so he could see what I was talking about.

I think I'm still getting the stink-eye.

The really bad part is that people believe the responding units care about a badge, even from an off-duty officer. The only thing that is going to convince an officer that you are on the job is a piece of ID that you just aren't going to get unless you are sworn. The badge is just jewelry.

-Mark
Author:  12smile [ Tue May 26, 2009 1:03 am ]
Post subject: 
jaysong wrote:
CCW badges are a class B misdemeanor in Utah.


also prohibited in the carry permit statute in New Mexico.
Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Tue May 26, 2009 10:08 am ]
Post subject: 
12smile wrote:
jaysong wrote:
CCW badges are a class B misdemeanor in Utah.


also prohibited in the carry permit statute in New Mexico.


Got cites for those? I'd love to use them in class.
Author:  rudy [ Tue May 26, 2009 4:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
cobb wrote:
joelr wrote:
rudy wrote:
I see that Joe is offering a free class for college students. Although I already have a permit to carry and took my class from Cobb, maybe it'd be interesting to go check out this "Coconut Charlie" character that everyone seems to be talking about...


(Cobb, I strongly suspect, will be losing no sleep worrying that he'll suffer by comparison -- ............


Very true, I will lose no sleep and would be interested in a comparison. If Joe P. offers information in his class that I do not and rudy feels is beneficial, well then I would seriously look at adding such information to my class. I am always willing to learn and improve my class, that is why I have sat in on several other classes with the instructor's prior approval and have had instructors sit in on mine, if only for me to learn from and try to improve my class presentation.


As amusing as it would be to observe the lubricant selling, bowling-ball-drilling, supplement salesman in action, my schedule is a bit cramped and I can't attend. :( Oh well, maybe he'll offer a free college student class this fall and I can go have fun later. :)
Author:  Traveler [ Tue May 26, 2009 6:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Am I correct in assuming that this person's classes are at times conducted in his basement? The basement of his home? That his wife or he cooks up "lunch" for the attendees from their home kitchen?

:roll:


Excuse me ma'am, but except for the pickled pigs feet up on the shelf there, could I assume that you keep Kosher? :(
Author:  joelr [ Tue May 26, 2009 7:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Traveler wrote:
Am I correct in assuming that this person's classes are at times conducted in his basement? The basement of his home? That his wife or he cooks up "lunch" for the attendees from their home kitchen?
Yup. And while I think I've got a pretty good rep for being critical of Penaz -- I think he's an air thief, m'self, and a waste of protoplasm [Don't hold back, Joel. ed.] -- I'm not going to be critical of this, per se.

I think a class can be conducted responsibly, anywhere there's sufficient space, chairs, and privacy. (And there are times when I'd sacrifice all three of these -- ask Andrew about the class that he did, with my help, standing next to a register at a StopNRob. Granted, it was a special case, but . . . )

A basement room could well have all three of those, and Penaz does most of his classes in his basement. Cramming more folks in than the facility can properly hold, well, that's not so good . . . but it is, after all, a Penaz class, and it's not like folks are going to miss the important stuff that is, at best, skimmed over.

If I'm wrong on this, I'm open to a discussion as to why.

And that said, honest: I just sent a potential student to Penaz, as I think they'll be an appropriate fit. Pinky swear.
Author:  jaysong [ Tue May 26, 2009 10:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Andrew Rothman wrote:
12smile wrote:
jaysong wrote:
CCW badges are a class B misdemeanor in Utah.


also prohibited in the carry permit statute in New Mexico.


Got cites for those? I'd love to use them in class.



http://www.le.utah.gov/UtahCode/getCode ... e=76-8-512

Quote:
76-8-512. Impersonation of officer.
A person is guilty of a class B misdemeanor who:
(1) impersonates a public servant or a peace officer with intent to deceive another or with intent to induce another to submit to his pretended official authority or to rely upon his pretended official act;
(2) falsely states he is a public servant or a peace officer with intent to deceive another or to induce another to submit to his pretended official authority or to rely upon his pretended official act; or
(3) displays or possesses without authority any badge, identification card, other form of identification, any restraint device, or the uniform of any state or local governmental entity, or a reasonable facsimile of any of these items, with the intent to deceive another or with the intent to induce another to submit to his pretended official authority or to rely upon his pretended official act.
8)
Author:  MostlyHarmless [ Tue May 26, 2009 10:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm not convinced that anyone who is obtuse enough to believe that concealed carry bahdges are a good idea could be convinced that the statute applies to them. After all, they're not impersonating a peace officer, just announcing the possession of a permit, see.

M.S. 609.475 isn't a whole lot different.
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