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Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive • View topic - Safe zone?
 
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 Safe zone? 
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 Post subject: Safe zone?
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 11:58 am 
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Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 12:49 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Bloomington, MN
Ladies and gentlemen I'm a relatively new member to this forum so I am not sure if this has been discussed before.

I live in Bloomington in a townhouse complex which is immediately adjacent to a public elementary school and public middle school. During one of my recent walks (it's a fitness thing :) ) I noticed signs posted at the perimeter of the school property. These are not new signs, I just never really noticed them before. I believe these signs are also posted in local city parks.

The signs have the familiar blue and black crime watch logo and state:

SAFE ZONE
No Drugs - No weapons

WARNING
Sale or possession of illegal drugs/dangerous weapons within 300 feet or one block of this school, park or public housing will result in increased penalties.

REPORT VIOLATORS
CALL 911

I have a MN CCW permit and occasionally carry on my property or when walking to several local parks which can take me past school property. While I do not use, sell or possess illegal drugs and do not plan on participating in any activities where I might be subjected to "penalties", I do occasionally carry a "dangerous weapon" under the requirements of my MN CCW permit.

A few questions for the barristers in the audience:

1. Are these safe zone signs part of some city, county or state law or ordinance?

2. Three-hundred feet or one block from the school falls on my property. How can they put up a sign regulating conduct on adjacent private property?

3. What are the "increased penalties" mentioned on the signage?

4. Typically when I walk past the school I cross the street and walk on the sidewalk across from the school to avoid carrying on school property issues. However this would still put me within the magical 300 feet or one block mentioned on the signs.

What a world we live in. The school wants to regulate my CCW carry on my property yet it is OK for school district employees to come on my property and smoke since they cannot do it on school property.

Anxiously awaiting some lively debate...

Steve


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:08 pm 
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Not a barrister myself, but I read the law such that your permit is not affected by their safe zone.

Calling kimberman... :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 1:29 pm 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:42 pm 
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Hi Steve. Welcome to the forum.

M.S. 152.023 describes the enhanced penalties for possession of certain controlled substances in a park or school zone. M.S. 609.66, Subd. 1 (b) describes the enhanced penalties for various weapons violations in a park or school zone.

The municipal liquor store in the City of Northfield has a prominent sign, at eye level, on the front door, in black letters on a white background, that says, "The City of Northfield Does Not Welcome Guns In These Premises." It means absolutely nothing, beyond testifying to the fact that the MCPPA has given the city council a sufficiently bad bee in their bonnet that they insist on having a tantrum over it in public.

I think you'll find that any sign on a municipal park that purports to prohibit lawful carry of firearms is itself in violation of state law. Sometimes a call to the city attorney will result in its removal.

The federal gun-free schools act of 1990 provides federal penalties for carrying without a permit in a school or within 1000 feet of a school. There are exemptions for permit holders and for carrying on private property.

I have been unable to find any reports of prosecutions under the act.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 12:22 am 
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What did your carry instructor have to say about this, and who was he/she?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 7:19 am 
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MostlyHarmless wrote:
I have been unable to find any reports of prosecutions under the act.

Well, you won't because
Quote:
It was subsequently declared to be an unconstitutional exercise of Congressional authority under the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution by the United States Supreme Court, and was therefore voided.


It was re-enacted in 1996 with some changes, but, like you say, it really doesn't apply in Minnesota if you have a Permit to Carry (or what some choose to erroneously call a "CCW").

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:39 am 
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note to self: specifically mention Saint Anthony Wine and Spirits and City of Northfield Municipal Liquor stores as an example to highlight the public entities may not restrict portion of the carry law.

I already cover it with the Henn Co Library and Welfare office but these are good, clear examples.

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 Post subject: No Smoking policy
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 12:07 pm 
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Location: North Minneapolis
quote: "What a world we live in. The school wants to regulate my CCW carry on my property yet it is OK for school district employees to come on my property and smoke since they cannot do it on school property. "

Maybe you should post your property as "No Smoking" for school Employee's. Make some signs and post your property same as they have posted the school property. Now when they walk past your property to smoke on the property of your neighbors, call the school superintendent and point out that paid employees are leaving the area while on "School" (working) time.

Good Luck

Steve

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 Post subject: RE: Safe zone?
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 10:11 am 
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Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 12:49 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Bloomington, MN
Andrew Rothman wrote:
What did your carry instructor have to say about this, and who was he/she?


I'm not sure that it matters for purposes of this discussion who my instructor was. He knows who he is and I know who he is.

I have been through the course twice and read two versions of the book. The course and the book covered prohibited places including schools, court houses and the capitol complex, etc. I believe the Federal Gun Free Schools Act and M.S. 609.66 are different issues, are the basis of my question and are not covered in the book or course.

I thank those who took the time to respond and I will seek further clarification offline.


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 Post subject: Re: No Smoking policy
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 10:46 am 
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KA0OLD wrote:
quote: "What a world we live in. The school wants to regulate my CCW carry on my property yet it is OK for school district employees to come on my property and smoke since they cannot do it on school property. "

Maybe you should post your property as "No Smoking" for school Employee's. Make some signs and post your property same as they have posted the school property.


I like it. I really like it.

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 Post subject: Re: No Smoking policy
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 2:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 12:49 pm
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Location: Bloomington, MN
KA0OLD wrote:
Maybe you should post your property as "No Smoking" for school Employee's. Make some signs and post your property same as they have posted the school property.


Exchanged some E-mail with the school principal. Much more cooperative that the previous principal. I believe my smoking issue has been extinguished. 8) Of course we also chatted about littering and tresspass and School Board policy #419 which prohibits staff and student smoking.


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