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 Fun with open carry 
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 Post subject: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:17 am 
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OK, so I'm not a big open carry advocate, but today, I'm going to the Ahlman's gun range to shoot my pistol and test out a potential purchase. SO, I head out the door and realize that I don't have any tape to put up my targets. I've got my Makarov exposed on my hip since I left straight from my house and had not intended to stop anywhere. But I need tape, so I detour to the great American Wal-Mart, seller of firearms and ammunition (although there are no firearms in the Faribault Wal-Mart any longer,) to get what I need. I've never open carried before so I briefly consider the reactions I may get inside and with perhaps a bit of hesitation, I venture inside. I stroll over to the hardware department and find my tape, and walk directly to the first checkout, non-nonchalantly observing people and what might be an adverse reaction to my horrifying sidearm. I am just about ready to check out and YES, it happens- Greg from loss prevention approaches me from my rear, "Excuse me sir, are you a Law Enforcement officer?," He politely asks me. "No I am not" I tell him. Now Gregg does not appear agitated, but explains to that he is concerned about hoplophobes, I mean.. customers, who may be intimidated by my open carry. I politely respond that Wal-Mart is not posted against carry-permit holders, and that open carry is thus permitted. He understands, but still shares his concerns about frightening customers. Immediately following this conversation, (I had mentioned that I was on my way to the range,) he asks me where I go to shoot as he has recently moved here from Iowa and doesn't know the area very well. I tell him about Ahlman's and assure him I will respect his concerns going forward. We both part ways amicably.

Now my wife will tell you, if I get on a soapbox it is hard to get me off, and there is a part of me that wanted to tell this guy, the law is the law, if you don't like it, call corporate. But he was very calm, treated me with respect and seemed like an otherwise reasonable guy. Still I guess I think I ought to be able to open carry where I damn well please. I'm a bit divided on this thing. Perhaps I should call Wal-Mart corporate and see what they say. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:29 am 
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Walmart has reserved the right to ask people to cover their firearms. Otherwise they allow what the law allows.


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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:31 am 
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Pakrat wrote:
Walmart has reserved the right to ask people to cover their firearms. Otherwise they allow what the law allows.


Well, they can ask all they want, but that doesn't make it binding. It's not in the statute I assume.

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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:38 am 
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Private property, actually, so...

If they can ban, I think they could make concealed a requirement for carry in their store. I've never heard of anyone trying it, but it's their property.

Anybody who can say IAAL want to chime in?

-Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:39 am 
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I would say let sleeping dogs lie...

While I doubt they ever would, if Walmart starts lobbying state legislitators to revisit the carry laws a whole lot of bad things can happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:58 am 
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If they have asked you to leave, you've got to go or be subject to the ticket for failing to honor the request. It doesn't matter that there wasn't a sign banning firearms to begin with. After they orally ask that you leave, you need to go politely. Staying put and ignoring their request exposes you to the next phase of the statute. It doesn't sound like the employee asked you to leave but implied it. You complied by completing your transaction and leaving. By the way, if WM let's us carry in their stores and simply requests that we cover-up, that's not perfect but it's still better than the stores that post at the front door and don't want us carrying on their premises at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:08 am 
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"I have my rights!"

"Yes, sir, I realize that. You must also realize that WalMart has their rights also. Now, this is a summons for Disorderly Conduct. You will need to appear at the Rice County . . ."



I can see that scenario coming a mile away. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:18 am 
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Traveler wrote:
"I have my rights!"

"Yes, sir, I realize that. You must also realize that WalMart has their rights also. Now, this is a summons for Disorderly Conduct. You will need to appear at the Rice County . . ."



I can see that scenario coming a mile away. :lol:


Well, your not quoting me. I don't take the position that "I have my rights." I just want clarity, and to be lawful without suffering from the ambiguity that surround some of these carry issues.

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"There are good men and bad men of all nationalities, creeds and colors; and if this world of ours is ever to become what we hope some day it may become, it must be by the general recognition that the man's heart and soul, the man's worth and actions, determine his standing."
-Theodore Roosevelt


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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:17 pm 
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Just found this interesting link. Perhaps Walmart is not as consistent in their polices as would be desired.

http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/07/04/02/editor.htm

They don't want loaded guns in there store? Wtf???

And even further evidence, that I may be in the right here.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum7/27366.html

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"There are good men and bad men of all nationalities, creeds and colors; and if this world of ours is ever to become what we hope some day it may become, it must be by the general recognition that the man's heart and soul, the man's worth and actions, determine his standing."
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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:41 pm 
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Harland,

Please use the search function and learn what the statute really says and what Walmart is or is not entitled to request.

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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:04 pm 
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The problem is, corporate policy or not if the manager running the store makes a request to cover and you don't comply, the next request will be to leave. If you don't comply then, you'll set yourself up nicely for one of those little trespassing tickets that we all chuckle about...until the time to renew your permit comes up.

Best bet is to comply, then get in touch with the store manager (assuming that the store manager wasn't the one who asked you to leave...if it was, then get in touch with the district manager). Explain why Target will be getting all your general business, and other stores will get all your ammo business.

I'll bet you won't have a problem again.

-Mark

ETA - Anybody noticing anything out of the ordinary at Walmart surprises me. I can't get the cashiers at the EP one to notice I'm standing in front of them half the time with the exception of two decent guys who work in the sporting goods section. Considering the only money I'll give them these days is for ammo (and then only if I have to), I don't deal with too many other folks there now. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:26 pm 
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Woodchuck wrote:
Harland,

Please use the search function and learn what the statute really says and what Walmart is or is not entitled to request.



Please do not infer that I am unable or unwilling to use the search function to further research this as I find that a bit insulting.

The issue is not what they can or cannot request my friend. The question is, what is corporate policy at WalMart? As you saw in my post, I was polite and handled it as diplomatically as I possibly could. The burning question is, does Walmart have a consistent policy regarding the open carry of firearms in their stores? Is this individual "making it up as he goes," (it appears he was based on my previous links,) or would I encounter the same situation in any Walmart store? These are not franchises and EVERYTHING is dictated by corporate policy.

Mrokern, I do agree with your assessment but it is amazing that in dealing with Police, Corporate America, et al. practically no one handles these thing consistently and predictably.

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"There are good men and bad men of all nationalities, creeds and colors; and if this world of ours is ever to become what we hope some day it may become, it must be by the general recognition that the man's heart and soul, the man's worth and actions, determine his standing."
-Theodore Roosevelt


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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:08 pm 
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It doesn't really matter what the corporate policy is if you are asked to leave. See what onebohemian wrote. He is a Minnesota lawyer and knows WTF he is talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:35 pm 
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DeanC wrote:
It doesn't really matter what the corporate policy is if you are asked to leave. See what onebohemian wrote. He is a Minnesota lawyer and knows WTF he is talking about.


I am not arguing that point. Perhaps what I mean to say, is that it may be worth escalating this with management on the back end in order to clear up what corporate policy actually is. If policy is not to ban open carry, I feel I should revisit the issue with the local Walmart management in order to provide consistency for patrons of Walmart who may choose to open carry. Pardon me if I have not been more clear on that point.

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"There are good men and bad men of all nationalities, creeds and colors; and if this world of ours is ever to become what we hope some day it may become, it must be by the general recognition that the man's heart and soul, the man's worth and actions, determine his standing."
-Theodore Roosevelt


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 Post subject: Re: Fun with open carry
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:49 pm 
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Harland wrote:
Still I guess I think I ought to be able to open carry where I damn well please.

Yes you are legal to do so, but it continues to amaze me why permit holders continue to force this issue and rub the sheeples nose in it. :roll:
What goes around, comes around and maybe some of you will age and understand this........................


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