Cobb, I always conduct myself respectfully no matter who I deal with I hope. Perhaps I am more passionate about this than others are. Perhaps those on the open carry boards would be a tad more understanding of my position. I really don't think my intention is to rub anyone's nose in anything but to fully exercise my liberties under a law that is important in a philosophical as well as in a practical manner.

I'm going to start breaking out the popcorn every time OC comes up.

I should refer to myself as a respectful OCer.

I prefer open carry, by far. That said, I don't go out of my way to spook folks. If I'm going to be somewhere crowded in the metro where there are going to be a lot of kiddies and parents around, I'll cover up. If I'm further out-state, I'll let it hang out.

That said, I have been known to OC in the metro quite often, and yes, even in EP Walmart. I usually get a couple of interested looks, but that's it. Probably because I make a conscious effort to be even more friendly and outgoing when I know they can see the gun.

Most people don't notice. 90% of the ones who do assume "cop". Most of the rest ignore it. You might get an interested discussion or two, and I once had a lady say how disgusting it was that I was scaring people. I responded, "Sorry I didn't shave, but I'm not THAT frightening..." She stormed off. I wasn't going to give her the pleasure of getting a rise out of me.

-Mark

Thanks for coming back Mark, I was starting to feel very alone here. Being new here, perhaps I'm not too savvy about what I'm perceiving to be some acute polarization on this issue. Nonetheless, I think we hold a pretty similar philosophy on this issue. Promise me that you wont go too far in case I stir up some more crap and need a fair and balanced voice to join in the discussion.

It's a polarizing issue, to be sure. There's the running joke around here about the popcorn and lawnchairs every time it comes up.

I wish we could open carry everywhere without people freaking out, but sadly it's not the case. I do respect that there are other people who are afraid in the presence of a firearm, and I recognize that the middle of a crowded shopping mall may not be the best place to educate them. The restaurant across the street might work better. Seriously. I've had some good discussions in Chili's with folks about carry, prompted by OC.

I'm still not willing to give up my rights, but I'm not going to purposely scare people to make a point, that's all. Same reason I don't OC inside the capitol when I go there.

It helps that I tend to frequent gun-friendly businesses.

-Mark

ETA - I never have had a problem at a Chili's although I have had staff get interested. Once they realize that I'm tipping well, they stop being worried so much.

Yes, they can ask all they want. They can ask you to cover your firearm, they can ask you to put it in your car. They can also ask you to get the hell out.

All of this is "binding" while you are on their property.

You might want to actually read the "statute."

1. The quotes were rhetorical. If I quote someone it is duly noted whom I am quoting.

2. Corporate policy lays down guidelines. Rarely are individual situations spelled out because individual situations can vary greatly. Some rules are hard and fast: "Thou shalt not steal", but other than that managers and sub-managers are employed to use their best judgement based, using company policy and their own good sense.

3. I am sure that the "loading" bit is meant to say that they do not want patrons purchasing a box of ammunition and then loading their weapon at the counter in the store. Walking in with a loaded weapon, to me, seems understood, given that they allow carry but discourage "open" carry. I believe I can name at least one gun store that would frown on loading your newly purchased weapon in the store.

I have both CC'd and OC'd at Wal-Mart. Corporate policy is to allow legal carry. So far, no one has taken an interest, even when I walked past all the associates who had just broken from their morning meeting while I was heading back to check the ammo shelves. I'm convinced few even notice, especially with dark clothes and nothing shiny.

1. I understand that they can ask me to leave- Yeah it's in the statue, I GET THAT- Hell, they can ask me to leave for ANY arbitrary reason. If they ask I will leave.
2. I am a law abiding citizen, and will always follow the rules, but I can only follow the rules if I understand them.
3. If there is no notice on the door indicating that open carry is an issue, then how are customers going to know without being informed each and every time they violate the cryptic and unwritten rule. What if EVERYONE starts open carrying at Walmart. They going to spread the word like an Indian legend?
4. If you followed and read the links, you will see that Walmart policy is not consistently applied. This is not an issue with Ma and Pa's hardware store, but it IS a problem with a big corporate giant like Walmart.
5. Finally, I DID EXACTLY what I should have, by being polite and leaving.

I have a right to complain to management about their actions. They have a right to treat me like dirt. IT IS NOT, in their financial interest to disregard my position, or the position of others on this matter. This is why we need to speak up when we will there is an issue of concern.

It's not against Minnesota law for you to carry in Walmart. Walmart still has a civil right, as the store owner, to kick you out, but, because it's not illegal, they can't simply turn the matter over to the police. (If it WAS illegal, the police would take you to jail, and that would be much easier for Walmart.)

It's then a civil matter, really. (It's very easy and likely for the situation to turn in to something else.) But but if they store asks the police to remove you because of your gun, the police are SUPPOSED to tell them that since they are not posted the police cannot do that. The police should advise Walmart that it is a civil matter, Walmart should call their lawyer about their dispute with you and the police should leave.

Walmart's lawyer might advise Walmart that it would be expensive and time consuming to take you to court and get a court order removing you, and that you might possibly make a counterclaim against Walmart and so it might be risky to enforce this unposted "policy". But, it's their store and their money. What they should do is drop the policy, or else post the store in accordance with the law. Then the police could ticket you.

This is the "law school" answer. in the real world, additional facts and issues arise during the course of events, and the police do not always make the best decisions.

But if people keep enforcing their "rights" against other private persons and entities, the others will become pissed off, and it will seem reasonable to change the law. Nobody wants "in your face" people hanging around.

Why argue the carry law with a Walmart employee?

Yep.

But I keep getting told that they are trying to educate.

I agree with almost everything you say here Dick, except I think there can be a compromise between being a Walmart customer and a responsible citizen without having to come across as a crusader. The bottom line for any store of this size will always be the dollar. This is Walmart of Bentonville, Arkansas. Do seriously believe that if I push for clarification of policy at the corporate level, that the result will be posting every Walmart in America against guns? Yeah, I kinda doubt it.

Just talk to the store manager and ask for him to clarify his stores position. Then get back to us.

A store the size of Walmart would care less if you told them you'll be shopping at Target.

I believe that this will be my next action. Stay tuned.

You're pursuing a problem that doesn't exist. YET!!

Do what a business asks you to do. It's their right. You don't agree with it, shop elsewhere.

I open carry, IF I run into a situation like yours, I do what they ask, The nail that sticks out gets hammered on.

Don't let your ego create more problems for open carry and all permit holders.