| Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive http://twincitiescarry.com/forum/ |
|
| Long time lurker with a question about not being discrete http://twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13574 |
Page 1 of 3 |
| Author: | Plainsman [ Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Long time lurker with a question about not being discrete |
Hello, been lurking here for quite some time this is my first post. I was just in the cities this weekend, went to the children’s museum/moa/zoo/etc. I never saw any signs in the MOA about guns and I was on the lookout. Just thought it was interesting. I didn’t see the zoo posted but the museum was very prominent. Just observations. I noticed 2 guys packing on the trip, that was neat. One must have been a mtac or ctac type of setup, some type of tuck. Anyway to the reason I activated my account. I don’t get why so many here are piddling with the man on displaying or open carrying in places they are not supposed to? I appreciate my 2nd amendment right and also want to continue with the progress made. I don’t get why the boundaries are tested so often senselessly. What good comes from having security at Xstore come and ask you to be more discrete with your weapon regardless if the place isn’t posted. Personally being 'made' would be an embarrassment as why would you want to be displaying a vital piece of self defense? Concealed is a benefit to be leveraged. The more incidents where people walk around causing concern or testing boundaries will simply end by stricter legislation. Before you go and quote chapter and verse to some mall cop, maybe think how your actions are being perceived in the macro. .02c Thanks |
|
| Author: | MostlyHarmless [ Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Long time lurker with a question about not being discrete |
Preach it, bro. |
|
| Author: | brent375hh [ Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Long time lurker with a question about not being discrete |
Exactly! Not to mention your own safety. To my way of thinking showing what you got prior to an encounter with a violent attacker makes as much sense as showing your full house to everyone you are playing poker with. While it may deter the weak minded with no hand to play, the more experienced player in either situation now knows what it is gonna take to best you at their game. |
|
| Author: | chunkstyle [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Long time lurker with a question about not being discrete |
dis·crete \ˈdis-ˈkrēt\ adj. 1: constituting a separate entity : individually distinct <several discrete sections> 2 a: consisting of distinct or unconnected elements : noncontinuous b: taking on or having a finite or countably infinite number of values <discrete probabilities> <a discrete random variable> di·screet \di-ˈskrēt\ adj. 1: having or showing discernment or good judgment in conduct and especially in speech : prudent ; especially : capable of preserving prudent silence 2: unpretentious, modest <the warmth and discreet elegance of a civilized home — Joseph Wechsberg> 3: unobtrusive, unnoticeable <followed at a discreet distance> I'm definitely the former, rarely the latter. |
|
| Author: | RobD [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Long time lurker with a question about not being discrete |
|
|
|
| Author: | cobb [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Long time lurker with a question about not being discrete |
Plainsman wrote: Anyway to the reason I activated my account. I don’t get why so many here are piddling with the man on displaying or open carrying in places they are not supposed to? I appreciate my 2nd amendment right and also want to continue with the progress made. I don’t get why the boundaries are tested so often senselessly. What good comes from having security at Xstore come and ask you to be more discrete with your weapon regardless if the place isn’t posted. Personally being 'made' would be an embarrassment as why would you want to be displaying a vital piece of self defense? Concealed is a benefit to be leveraged. The more incidents where people walk around causing concern or testing boundaries will simply end by stricter legislation. Before you go and quote chapter and verse to some mall cop, maybe think how your actions are being perceived in the macro. It looks like you just cut and pasted one of my arguments.  You understand, some do not and say that they are educating the ignorant. The educating angle is used by all, from the KKK to the Gay Pride movement. In many cases these groups can legally do what they are doing, they say they are educating, I think they are rubbing people's noses in it and most of all are being ignorant themselves.
|
|
| Author: | Plainsman [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Long time lurker with a question about not being discrete |
chunkstyle wrote: dis·crete \ˈdis-ˈkrēt\ adj. 1: constituting a separate entity : individually distinct <several discrete sections> 2 a: consisting of distinct or unconnected elements : noncontinuous b: taking on or having a finite or countably infinite number of values <discrete probabilities> <a discrete random variable> di·screet \di-ˈskrēt\ adj. 1: having or showing discernment or good judgment in conduct and especially in speech : prudent ; especially : capable of preserving prudent silence 2: unpretentious, modest <the warmth and discreet elegance of a civilized home — Joseph Wechsberg> 3: unobtrusive, unnoticeable <followed at a discreet distance> I'm definitely the former, rarely the latter. LOL - yep good catch. And to think I was merely happy with a spell checker, looks to be a high bar around here.  heheh
|
|
| Author: | dcwn.45 [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Long time lurker with a question about not being discrete |
Pretty good first post! I happen to agree with the conceal and discretion crowd. So, who was your instructor? Ha ha |
|
| Author: | Carbide Insert [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Long time lurker with a question about not being discrete |
Plainsman wrote: I don’t get why so many here are piddling with the man on displaying or open carrying in places they are not supposed to? And what places would those be? Where is the magical list of places not included in the MCPPA where I am not supposed to open carry, but where I can conceal carry to my heart's content? Would that be right next to the "list" the capitol feels is required to keep us all safe from ourselves? Plainsman wrote: I appreciate my 2nd amendment right and also want to continue with the progress made. I don’t get why the boundaries are tested so often senselessly. Progress is made by drawing attention to issues of importance. People learn about guns not being evil and accept it as the norm when they see ordinary dads carrying in the store with their families, or enjoying a day at the zoo, or standing in line at the bank like every other customer. Not when they hear about some "obscure" new carry law on the news, or read rhetoric from pro and anti organizations that will ultimately never impact their daily lives. The only type of "senseless" test I can determine would be carrying at the capitol without notification and expecting to win the case. But again, I suppose that's opinion, both yours and mine. Plainsman wrote: What good comes from having security at Xstore come and ask you to be more discrete with your weapon regardless if the place isn’t posted. Perhaps if they require of themselves to keep doing that over and over, and realize it's a complete waste of time, they won't bother with it anymore? How is it that you presuppose that the manager of any given store is by default a liberal panty-wetting-hoplophobe? Are those the only people left who own businesses in America? Plainsman wrote: Personally being 'made' would be an embarrassment as why would you want to be displaying a vital piece of self defense? That's only if you feel that carrying a gun is an embarrasment, or if you feel to apologize for being an American. Plainsman wrote: Concealed is a benefit to be leveraged. Which is why police always carry concealed, and why no one in Florida expects people are armed.  Plainsman wrote: The more incidents where people walk around causing concern or testing boundaries will simply end by stricter legislation. Your personal opinion again, and speculation at that. I suppose we ought to whisper in public gatherings and at rallies too, rather than speak audibly enough where someone might hear, because after all, they might not like what they hear, and then that would simply end in stricter legislation. Plainsman wrote: Before you go and quote chapter and verse to some mall cop, maybe think how your actions are being perceived in the macro. Ah yes, the wonderful mind reading ability strikes once again. I wish I had been born with such a tremendous capability. Then I would always be able to appease the irrationally fearful in society, whether it's regarding guns or anything else, and I would know that there's never any chance whatsoever that someone would think to themselves, "Gee, if he's carrying, maybe I could learn about and do that too...". Because of course that's never happened. The general tone of your post sounds like you feel absolute in your arguments. I find that incredibly odd, and even a bit naiive, since they happen to be entirely subjective, are based only on your opinion, and have no credible facts or precedent to support them. I'm not (in this particular post, at least) out to cheerlead for open carry. I carry both openly and concealed as I see fit. What I just can't stomach is the high horse judgement and eliteist mentality from those who think the CC club is the only way one should ever possess a weapon, and to do so otherwise is just being a social troublemaker lacking in appropriate mental judgement capabilities. Sidebar: Please do excuse the ornary tone of this post. It is difficult to hear ad nauseum the same baseless arguments over and over again from those who have likely never open carried a day in their life, presuming to believe that if no one ever saw a gun, our rights would magically be advanced to the tune of the year 1776. That, and the fact that I'm just a little bit irritable this morning for no particular reason. 
|
|
| Author: | jdege [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Long time lurker with a question about not being discrete |
My take on it simple. We all of us benefit by changing the image in which gun owners are held. Or suffer, depending upon the change. It's good for people to see that gun owners are perfectly ordinary citizens, of no threat to anyone, despite the fact that they are carrying guns. In my mind, that requires that gun owners be "outed", in the proper circumstances. The trick is the circumstances. What we want, when a confrontation occurs involving open carry, that the witnesses come away with the impression that it's the gun owner who's being reasonable, and the person confronting them who is the kook. That doesn't mean standing the parking lot, dressed in camo, shouting about your rights as mall security calls the cops. |
|
| Author: | macphisto [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Long time lurker with a question about not being discrete |
Carbide Insert wrote: What I just can't stomach is the high horse judgement and eliteist mentality from those who think the CC club is the only way one should ever possess a weapon, and to do so otherwise is just being a social troublemaker lacking in appropriate mental judgement capabilities. +1 |
|
| Author: | Andrew Rothman [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Long time lurker with a question about not being discrete |
Plainsman, welcome. You might want to look at the 200 or so open carry threads -- you're not covering new ground. Personally, I open carry a lot. I've had many friendly conversations, signed up some students, and generally portrayed to some ignorant people that a guy with a gun (and my 5- and 7-year-old Secret Weapons of Cute™) is just, well, a guy -- nothing to be afraid of. |
|
| Author: | nitzer [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Long time lurker with a question about not being discrete |
I guess for me, I have nothing against open carry. I just prefer to conceal it. I prefer it that way for personal reasons. I am not ashamed that I am a permit holder. People I know and choose to tell, know I carry. I prefer to conceal as not to alarm my elderly customers since most of the younger folks here saw me take the carry course or know that I did. Of course that is not a firm indicator that I do carry on a daily basis of which I do. The funny thing is that the only time I probably would open carry is if I was in camo and wearing my blaze orange. That way, I could justify the presence of my firearm in an open manner to those less open to permit holders. I feel that people are too quick to judge and that the presence of an open firearm is an invitation to judge me. I would prefer to let people get to know me, before they judge me. That is just my personal situation. Everyone's situation is different. The other biggest reason I don't open carry is the lack of a holster with decent retention to deter someone from trying to take my firearm away from me. Should I decide to open carry (as the police do), I feel it is my responsibility to ensure my weapon is secure (as the police do). Should I decide to open carry, I would obtain the proper equipment to do so. I also realize that I am not a peace officer. The comparison to the police is merely to make reference to weapon retention. Other than that, I have no issues with folks that want to open carry as long as they don't try and force their opinions about the subject on me. Of course, that statement applies to any conversation. Being a business owner, I have learned to keep my opinions to myself or it will hurt my business. Once again, my personal situation. I believe there is a time and a place for everything and those times and places are different for different people. I would have an issue with someone breaking the law since that is not an opinion on my part..... |
|
| Author: | Moby Clarke [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Long time lurker with a question about not being discrete |
To the OP: For a first post, you really stepped out on a limb. +1000 to what Carbide wrote. I believe he fisked the OP pretty well. Thanks Carbide. I carry openly in N. Minneapolis, of all places. I have had several pleasant experiences and friendly conversations with folks about carry, self-defense and guns. No one has freaked out and run screaming from me. Maybe the fact that I am walking with my two daughters helps to calm them and help them realize that not everything they see on TV or read in the newspaper is accurate. YMMV. That is the beauty of living in the greatest country in the world. You can believe what you want, and I can believe what I want. Thanks for asking. |
|
| Author: | joelr [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Long time lurker with a question about not being discrete |
I'm not a big fan of open carry, although there are times and places where I think it makes more sense than discreet carry, so I openly carry there. That said, I am in favor of people exercising rights without being hassled by impertinent public servants. All in all, I think the advantages -- to me, in my situation -- militate in favor of discreet carry most of the time. But there is one obvious tactical advantage to open carry (I think it's outweighed by the disadvantages, but . . . ) it does say, pretty clearly, You might want to think about finding somebody else to perp on. In terms of criticizing people for criticizing others, well, after I move out of that glass house, I might start throwing stones. More specifically: I don't think there's anything wrong with criticizing behavior one finds objectionable, and suiting the nature and style of the criticism to what's appropriate for the situation. |
|
| Page 1 of 3 | All times are UTC - 6 hours |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|