Index  •  FAQ  •  Search  

It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 5:39 am

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
 Do I have anything to worry about? 
Author Message
 Post subject: Do I have anything to worry about?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:37 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:53 am
Posts: 725
Location: New Ulm area
Or am I just being paranoid?

As I posted the other day, my daughter moved back home after breaking up with her old boyfriend.

Anyways, today he shows up (unannounced...out of the blue), at the house wanting to talk to her (daughter was outside, I was in the house and didn't even know he had came over). During their conversation, he proposes to her and she told him that she didn't want anything to do with him ever again.........then she comes in the house.

She informed me that he was outside and she wanted him to leave and asked me to deal with him.

I looked at my daughter and told her to tell him that he has 30 seconds to get in his car and leave or the cops will be called. She walks out and tells him, "My dad says you have 30 seconds to leave" (I could hear her through the screen door). I never stepped outside or even talked to him.

He leaves.

A few hours later, my wife comes home from work and asked me why I was going to shoot him. :shock: :? Then she played back a saved voice mail from her phone (on speaker), so that I, my son and the neighbor could hear it (we happened to be outside talking when my wife came home).

His message rambled for a bit then said, "(my name) threatened to shoot me if I didn't leave". :shock: I made her save the message again and told her "DO NOT under any circumstances, delete that message!"

I know better than to threaten to shoot someone over petty BS or anything for that matter. Besides, it'd be more fun to punch his lights out :twisted: , but I wouldn't even do that unless he swung first.

Problem is, he'll probably go running to his mommy and psychotic sister and they'll most likely talk him into talking to the cops. :?

It's been about 4-5 hours since he was here (and maybe an hour since my wife came home), and I am sitting here, still nervous (and mad) as hell (because of what he said in my wife's voice mail), waiting for a couple squad cars to roll up........ :?

Am I being too paranoid? :?

_________________
The only downfall to a 1911A1, is actually a plus: You can have it your way, and can put an unreal amount of money into em'.

Squeeze trigger, BANG, repeat. Kind of boring, but I never cared for drama.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do I have anything to worry about?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:23 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:37 pm
Posts: 1757
Location: Whittier
No. Do you have your lawyer squared away? Not saying you did anything wrong, just that those sorts of people can fabricate things (I have a story, I am sure you've heard me tell) . . . knowwing what I know now, I'd want to have the lawyer set, primed and ready.

I'll say it again, I don't think you did anything wrong. Having not done anything wrong is unfortunately no protection against people of the flavor you are describing.

_________________
Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a
lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become
a law unto himself; it invites anarchy .” Olmstead v. U.S., 277 U.S. 438


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do I have anything to worry about?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:05 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:28 pm
Posts: 2362
Location: Uptown Minneapolis
Your mistake was threatening him with the cops. Just tell him to leave. Then call the cops. You may wait a few minutes, if you like, before calling them. Never threaten, just act.

_________________
"The right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible." - Vice President Hubert H. Humphrey, 1960

"Man has the right to deal with his oppressors by devouring their palpitating hearts." - Jean-Paul Marat


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do I have anything to worry about?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 9:12 pm 
The Man
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:43 am
Posts: 7970
Location: Minneapolis MN
Yes, you have something to worry about -- get on the phone to a good criminal lawyer, oh, now. It can probably wait until morning, or next week, or next year, but maybe it can't.

_________________
Just a guy.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do I have anything to worry about?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:40 pm 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:58 am
Posts: 213
Hunter,
Keep a close eye on this guy. I would call the cops ahead of time and let them know what transpired. You want to get it on the record that this guys is a little unhinged and that you in no way told him you would shoot him. Guys like this play the system against the people it is supposed to protect.
My Wife and I had an issue with one of her old boyfriends. He took out a restraining order on me after telling the police that I was stalking him. An order for protection is always granted right away to protect the victim. However, there needs to be a hearing, (scheduled later), that needs to take place in order to make it more permanent. Its during that time between asking for the order and the hearing, that the crazies use this order for protection against the real victims. In our case he showed up at a bar we were at and walked by pertending to shoot us with his finger. I went up to him and told him to leave or I would call the cops. He said go ahead. After I called them they came and arrested me!... for beaking a restraining order I had never been served with. After I was cuffed and stuffed he waved at me from outside the cop car and walked back into the bar following my Wife. In the end all of the charges against me were dropped, but it could have given him a window of opportunity to harm my Wife. After all she was home alone, and I was in jail for the night.

Just be careful of this guy. If he really wanted to marry your Daughter he wouldn't mess with the "Old Man", pardon the expression. Talk with your Daughter, and make sure there aren't other things that she didn't share with you. Things that she didn't think were important, but in retrospect shines a different light on this guy. Because these guys learn this stuff over time. In our instance we found out that this guy had killed a young boy when he was underage, (record erased at 18). And he had a history of stalking other women. During the course of everything we found 4 other girls he had or was stalking. In the end we moved out of state, that didn't stop him. We changed phone numbers, moved again, tried to dissapear, nothing worked. What did work was when he decided to go straight to hell, do not pass go, do not collect $200, and took off the back of is own head with a shot gun..., The end result is I am glad hes' gone and didn't take anyone with him.

Be safe and talk to your Daughter and Wife, and watch for signs he has been around, and document stuff when it happens. Build a case against him like a cop would, and be ready if things go south.

Stay safe,
Mike

_________________
"I have carried a revolver; lots of us do, but they are the most innocent things in the world. Their deeds give a false character to their district."
- "Mark Twain"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do I have anything to worry about?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:51 am 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:46 pm
Posts: 845
Location: Saint Paul
Rule of thumb: Never threaten on any level.

Ask the person to leave. If they hesitate, or fail to leave your premises, then just call the police.

Never threaten.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do I have anything to worry about?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:14 am 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am
Posts: 2444
Location: West Central MN
This is perfect. Hunter never talked to him. His daughter did all the talking. If the cops come, she can tell them that. Most cops will ask questions of witnesses before they arrest someone, if rational witnesses are available.

Problem is, most victims don't stand up for themselves. Instead of telling the pos to get lost forever, they'll say something like "my parents don't want you here, maybe you should not be here just now. I'm really sorry". And when the cops come, most victims are STILL pretty ambivalent. (People who are not ambivilent in these situations are not usually victims). That's not the case here. It's great that she can do this.

This is a troublesome guy, willing to make sh*t up. Make a police report, that he made sh*t up, saying someone who never talked to him threatened to shoot him.

Have the police talk to him about his statements. A good police officer can ask him if he said that, and then ask about 50 followup questions about exactly what words were used, what time it was, what everyone was doing, wearing, standing, who heard the words, what he did or said in response, how he left the property, how often this threat was made in the past, then ask him all about his interactions with Hunter ever since they've met, every thing else he did that day, who else he has since talked to about the situation, who his friends and co-workers are, how the officer might contact these people, etc.

People who lie want to say the lie once and get it over with. They don't anticipate all the followup questioning ater they lie, and will get real ambivalent themselves.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do I have anything to worry about?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:09 am 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 am
Posts: 810
Location: Northern MN
I have also found that people of this personality type often race to the courthouse to get a harrassment / restraining order. Don't be surprised if you're served next week.

_________________
Proud, Service Oriented, Rural LEO, or "BADGED COWBOY"
Certified MN Carry Permit Instructor


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do I have anything to worry about?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:25 pm 
Senior Member

Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:06 pm
Posts: 293
Location: White Bear Lake
Hunter07 never talked to the guy. His girl did. He didn't threaten the kid at all. When has telling someone to leave or you will call Five-O (on your own property) become a problem. Did she say that you'd shoot him if he didn't? Better find out, then get your own restraining order. Calling a lawyer for an opinion wouldn't hurt for sure..
If having to lawyer up for telling someone to leave my property then I'll be in deep shit. I would have called the Cops filed a report. Why would he leave a voice mail on your wifes phone? Does he know that you carry? If so why and how?

_________________
GSG-5, Beretta Mdl 71 (.22), XD9SC, 22/45 Ruger


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do I have anything to worry about?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:30 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:09 pm
Posts: 965
Location: North Minneapolis
I bit off topic, but is claiming one will call the police really a threat against someone else? I could see trouble if Hunter had claimed he would do harm to the person if he did not leave, but how can a claim of "leave or I will call the police" be considered a threat?

_________________
It is about Liberty!

Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Chris


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do I have anything to worry about?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:59 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 am
Posts: 810
Location: Northern MN
You have to stop thinking rationally, and logically.

People like this LIE. They DELUDE themselves. They BLAME other people.

It's not about how YOU perceive the problem and how they should LOGICALLY react and think.

Although there's no indication that he's stalking yet...

Hunter07 has a legit problem. I would consider carrying a pocket recorder and "rejecting" the ex's phone numbers from your family's phones. All of them. Let voice mail take all his calls in the alternative. Stalker types get their satisfaction from the fear and unrest they cause. If they can't get through, they can't be effective.

just my .02

_________________
Proud, Service Oriented, Rural LEO, or "BADGED COWBOY"
Certified MN Carry Permit Instructor


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do I have anything to worry about?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:09 pm 
Member

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:59 pm
Posts: 31
We live in a fairly crime free area, but when one of my customer's husband called my wife (a pharmacist) and told her "you better watch your back" and "I'll have your license" we definitely called the local police to get a statement on record. Especially since he was seeking narcotics and was known to be an alcoholic that has been in and out of treatment several times. Come to find out the guy was on probation before judgment for stealing narcotics from his dying mother and got hauled back into court because we reported the threat. In fact, the police didn't even know that the drug he was accused of stealing from his mother was a narcotic until the assistant DA asked my wife what it was. After speaking to the board of pharmacy (covering our butts) and our lawyer, we banned them from our pharmacy except in a life/death emergency situation. Doesn't matter that we are the only pharmacy in the county. We are well within our rights as a business to refuse service to someone. All we wanted to do by reporting it was get the threat on record in case something did happen so they couldn't come back later and say "well, you must've not been too scared if you didn't report it".

_________________
You won't find a "we ban guns on these premises" sign posted at my business.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do I have anything to worry about?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:43 am 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:46 pm
Posts: 845
Location: Saint Paul
nitzer wrote:
We live in a fairly crime free area, but when one of my customer's husband called my wife (a pharmacist) and told her "you better watch your back" and "I'll have your license" we definitely called the local police to get a statement on record. Especially since he was seeking narcotics and was known to be an alcoholic that has been in and out of treatment several times. Come to find out the guy was on probation before judgment for stealing narcotics from his dying mother and got hauled back into court because we reported the threat. In fact, the police didn't even know that the drug he was accused of stealing from his mother was a narcotic until the assistant DA asked my wife what it was. After speaking to the board of pharmacy (covering our butts) and our lawyer, we banned them from our pharmacy except in a life/death emergency situation. Doesn't matter that we are the only pharmacy in the county. We are well within our rights as a business to refuse service to someone. All we wanted to do by reporting it was get the threat on record in case something did happen so they couldn't come back later and say "well, you must've not been too scared if you didn't report it".


That was, IMHO, a very good response to an unpleasant exchange. IWNECBAL, but my view is that you have covered most of the bases and reduced your exposure by simply informing the authorities and having it on record.

Moby Clarke: What I should have stated in a more clear manner was that the process of saying "If you . . . I will call the police." is a bit like threatening a child with "If you don't stop . . . you will go without dinner." All you have done is taught the bad person, and/or the child, that they have some latitude before you will take any action. Make a decision. Either call the police or do not, but don't stand there saying "If you . . . I will call the police."


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do I have anything to worry about?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:08 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:44 pm
Posts: 1525
Location: Isanti, MN
I think I would follow the advice of others and contact a lawyer for his/her opinion. I would surely want my daughter to tell me truthfully anything she may have said to this guy. I wouldn't be shy about telling the authorities (with deference to the attorney's recommendations) that this "gentleman" is problematic and you don't want him on your property, or near your family. I would tell him to leave only once, then I'd call the police. The next time he showed I'd want trespass charges.

One problem to watch out for is if the daughter decides at some point that she wants to reconcile with the guy. I have 1st hand experience with this and one of my daughters. Reconcilliation or not I trusted my instincts and still wouldn't let the guy on my property. My instincts proved right in the long term.

_________________
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
- Winston Churchill -


WITHOUT LIBERTY THERE IS NO FREEDOM


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Do I have anything to worry about?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:18 pm 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:00 pm
Posts: 373
nitzer wrote:
We live in a fairly crime free area, but when one of my customer's husband called my wife (a pharmacist) and told her "you better watch your back" and "I'll have your license" we definitely called the local police to get a statement on record. ... In fact, the police didn't even know that the drug he was accused of stealing from his mother was a narcotic until the assistant DA asked my wife what it was. After speaking to the board of pharmacy (covering our butts) and our lawyer, we banned them from our pharmacy except in a life/death emergency situation.


I agree with reporting the incident to the police as well. As a parent you need to get a handle on the situation with your daughter and her relations, especially if she's living under your roof. It seems like someone let him onto your property to begin with. Scott Hughes hit the nail on the head...

You've got more issues to worry about than just your permit to carry.

_________________

In a big country dreams stay with you, like a lover's voice fires the mountainside. Stay alive.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours


 Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


 
Index  |  FAQ  |  Search

phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group