Why you never want a public defender.
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kimberman
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Post subject: Why you never want a public defender. Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:22 am |
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Wise Elder |
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Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm Posts: 2782 Location: St. Paul
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Quote: But before the trial began, Williams had claimed that he wasn't carrying a gun and that [Anderson] had planted it on him. His defense attorney, Assistant Hennepin County Public Defender John Ryan III, did not ask Officer Andersen about it, though.
In fact, Ryan's cross-examination of Andersen, the state's star witness, consisted of just four questions. He asked the officer if he could recall the name of the gun's manufacturer (he couldn't), whether the gun could be identified ("I didn't even try," Andersen replied), whether it had a serial number (Andersen said he didn't know) and whether he submitted it for fingerprint or DNA testing.
"I don't know if they did that or not," Andersen replied.
Ryan did not return calls for comment.
* * *
Ryan's final defense argument to the jury was five sentences long. He reminded jurors that the judge and prosecutor had explained burden of proof and that the state had to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt.
"The defendant didn't have to testify but he did and he gave you his version of events," Ryan told jurors. "If you have reasonable doubt, you have to return a verdict of not guilty and I wish you good luck in your deliberations and actually do the right thing and follow the law.
"Thank you." http://www.twincities.com/ci_12911184?nclick_check=1
_________________ President of AACFI, GOCRA, CCRN, and A2A
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Dick Unger
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Post subject: Re: Why you never want a public defender. Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:25 am |
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am Posts: 2444 Location: West Central MN
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They are not all this bad. But they do not have the resources to do their jobs in Minnesota because of the funding cuts engineered by the current administration. It will get more and more like this. This lawyer had no time to prepare a case, so he didn't. In law school they'll say you should refuse a case you cannot prepare. In the real world, the lawyer can't just refuse a case because he'll lose his job. It's a real crappy time to be a Public Defender. As long as people accept the "no new taxes" (but we're not smart enough to tell the agencies how less money will help), we'll have this. Lots more Democrats coming to the statehouse next election, watch and see.
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tman065
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Post subject: Re: Why you never want a public defender. Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:05 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 am Posts: 810 Location: Northern MN
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The Ninth Judicial District has some excellent attorneys working for it. They believe in what they do and are not just phoning it in . I know that's somewhat against stereotype, but is is true.
They are, however, overloaded and overwhelmed with clients.
_________________ Proud, Service Oriented, Rural LEO, or "BADGED COWBOY" Certified MN Carry Permit Instructor
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JonL
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Post subject: Re: Why you never want a public defender. Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:54 pm |
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Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:27 pm Posts: 179 Location: Plymouth
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Dick Unger wrote: ... As long as people accept the "no new taxes" (but we're not smart enough to tell the agencies how less money will help), we'll have this. ... Maybe someday we'll learn-- You don't get what you don't pay for
_________________ SETI...because we couldn't find any down here.
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jdege
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Post subject: Re: Why you never want a public defender. Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:15 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:23 pm Posts: 1419 Location: SE MPLS
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JonL wrote: Maybe someday we'll learn-- You don't get what you don't pay for The problem is that we're paying for a hell of a lot we shouldn't be paying for, and when we make the pols cut back, they always cut back on the things we should be paying for.
_________________ Jeff Dege
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mmcnx2
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Post subject: Re: Why you never want a public defender. Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:23 pm |
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Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:52 pm Posts: 211 Location: Greenfield, MN
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You know I'm a little tired of hearing that budget cuts are the cause of every problem. As a guy that does turn arounds in the business world I would suggest it is not a revenue issue(it seldom, is) as much as an allocation of the spending issue. As a public we have come to the thinking that everyone is entitled to everything, the best health care, the best legal representation, education-in 6 lanugauges, new signs to airports because less than 1% of the people going there are idiots and get lost.
I'm not suggesting we should have no public services, just that we decide what we need verses want and maybe it is time to focus our spending on those needs and set aside some of the wants - I know a lot of families, including mine, are doing the same thing these days.
Maybe as a public we should get back to basics, education that teaches math, reading, skilled trades, music, and paying teachers a fair wage and stop spending our money on schools that are made of marble and admistrative staff that could run a small country. Stop building new libaries that only the homeless go to and instead take a lesson from the real world and either get the information online or use a netflix type model and the library becomes a virtual resource.
I'm happy to pay my fair share it just really gets my goat when the people not paying ( and bitching about it) are getting better services than those of us that are stuck picking up all the bills. Rant over.
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mrokern
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Post subject: Re: Why you never want a public defender. Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:34 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm Posts: 2264 Location: Eden Prairie
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mmcnx2 wrote: You know I'm a little tired of hearing that budget cuts are the cause of every problem. As a guy that does turn arounds in the business world I would suggest it is not a revenue issue(it seldom, is) as much as an allocation of the spending issue. As a public we have come to the thinking that everyone is entitled to everything, the best health care, the best legal representation, education-in 6 lanugauges, new signs to airports because less than 1% of the people going there are idiots and get lost.
I'm not suggesting we should have no public services, just that we decide what we need verses want and maybe it is time to focus our spending on those needs and set aside some of the wants - I know a lot of families, including mine, are doing the same thing these days.
Maybe as a public we should get back to basics, education that teaches math, reading, skilled trades, music, and paying teachers a fair wage and stop spending our money on schools that are made of marble and admistrative staff that could run a small country. Stop building new libaries that only the homeless go to and instead take a lesson from the real world and either get the information online or use a netflix type model and the library becomes a virtual resource.
I'm happy to pay my fair share it just really gets my goat when the people not paying ( and bitching about it) are getting better services than those of us that are stuck picking up all the bills. Rant over. There are some good points in there and I'm all for less spending. The only thing I'd take issue with is the schools of marble and the libraries, but I'll cover those one at a time. Schools these days aren't exactly top-budget facilities. The company I work for outfits the technology at a lot of them. Under the hood, it's all about cost-cutting. I'll agree on the administrators, though! Never have so many useless people been paid to say and do so little of worth. If you can't teach, and you aren't direct support staff, and you aren't a principal, GET OUT. I'm the child of a teacher, so I definitely have some bias. I'd rather keep the libraries open, but how about we put more time and money into teaching people to read rather than to idolize celebrities and athletes? Take a look at a high school football budget. Then look at the library budget. Our priorities are screwed up. -Mark
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Macx
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Post subject: Re: Why you never want a public defender. Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:50 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:37 pm Posts: 1757 Location: Whittier
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Quote: I'd rather keep the libraries open, but how about we put more time and money into teaching people to read rather than to idolize celebrities and athletes? Take a look at a high school football budget. Then look at the library budget. Our priorities are screwed up.
Yes! That is exactly right.
_________________ Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a
lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become
a law unto himself; it invites anarchy .” Olmstead v. U.S., 277 U.S. 438
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DeanC
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Post subject: Re: Why you never want a public defender. Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:16 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
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I'd like to know where in the U.S. Constitution it is mandated that the state must pay for your attorney. You have the right to be represented by one, not the right to a free one.
I'm all for charity, just not coerced charity which is really authoritarian confiscation.
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
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mrokern
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Post subject: Re: Why you never want a public defender. Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:28 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm Posts: 2264 Location: Eden Prairie
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DeanC wrote: I'd like to know where in the U.S. Constitution it is mandated that the state must pay for your attorney. You have the right to be represented by one, not the right to a free one.
I'm all for charity, just not coerced charity which is really authoritarian confiscation. Gideon v. Wainwright One of the most famous SCOTUS cases of the 20th Century. -Mark ETA - The book Gideon's Trumpet is a very interesting read.
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princewally
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Post subject: Re: Why you never want a public defender. Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:44 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:02 am Posts: 1684 Location: St Louis Park
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Dick Unger wrote: Lots more Democrats coming to the statehouse next election, watch and see. You and your pessimistic doomsaying. Be positive, the electorate couldn't possibly be willing to make that mistake again, so soon.
_________________ Of the people, By the People, For the People. The government exists to serve us, not the reverse.
-------------------- Next MN carry permit class: TBD.
Permit to Carry MN --------------------
jason <at> metrodefense <dot> com
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DeanC
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Post subject: Re: Why you never want a public defender. Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:48 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
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mrokern wrote: Gideon v. Wainwright
One of the most famous SCOTUS cases of the 20th Century.
-Mark
ETA - The book Gideon's Trumpet is a very interesting read. I know - I read the book. That's the opinion of one court. It's not in the constitution that we have to pay for somebody else's attorney.
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
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mrokern
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Post subject: Re: Why you never want a public defender. Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:54 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm Posts: 2264 Location: Eden Prairie
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DeanC wrote: mrokern wrote: Gideon v. Wainwright
One of the most famous SCOTUS cases of the 20th Century.
-Mark
ETA - The book Gideon's Trumpet is a very interesting read. I know - I read the book. That's the opinion of one court. It's not in the constitution that we have to pay for somebody else's attorney. They deem that right to counsel (which is in the Constitution) must be applied to all citizens (which I do happen to agree with, honestly), hence they found that there must be a way for folks who can't afford an attorney to get one. My personal thought? If someone gets a public defender and is found not guilty, no charge. Period. Taxpayers don't like it? Then maybe we should be putting political pressure to get competent prosecutors on our elected officials (and electing competent prosecutors when the choice is ours). Found guilty? They get to either pay up or work it off as part of their sentence. -Mark
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DeanC
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Post subject: Re: Why you never want a public defender. Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:05 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:54 am Posts: 5270 Location: Minneapolis
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mrokern wrote: They deem that right to counsel (which is in the Constitution) must be applied to all citizens (which I do happen to agree with, honestly), I understand that and agree with it completely. mrokern wrote: hence they found that there must be a way for folks who can't afford an attorney to get one. There's other ways to get a free attorney than creating a government bureaucracy and confiscating my wealth under threat of imprisonment to pay for it.
_________________ I am defending myself... in favor of that!
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mrokern
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Post subject: Re: Why you never want a public defender. Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:11 am |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm Posts: 2264 Location: Eden Prairie
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DeanC wrote: mrokern wrote: They deem that right to counsel (which is in the Constitution) must be applied to all citizens (which I do happen to agree with, honestly), I understand that and agree with it completely. mrokern wrote: hence they found that there must be a way for folks who can't afford an attorney to get one. There's other ways to get a free attorney than creating a government bureaucracy and confiscating my wealth under threat of imprisonment to pay for it. Heh heh. I hear that. Again, why I think that if you're guilty, you owe. -Mark
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