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 Carry at the State Fair? 
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 Post subject: Re: Carry at the State Fair?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:44 pm 
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First, I'm glad that you clarified -- it's clear that your heart is in the right place.

But...

G129 wrote:
Andrew Rothman wrote:
G129 wrote:
I am not a lawyer, and am not an expert on concealed carry law.


With all respect, it is your job to know the law that you think you are enforcing.


As far as being an expert on concealed carry law, I think even lawyers would admit that they are not experts on all the laws out there.


You risk your badge and your financial well-being when you try to enforce a law you don't understand -- not that this one is that difficult.

It is your DUTY to refuse to follow an unlawful order.

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 Post subject: Re: Carry at the State Fair?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:55 pm 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:

You risk your badge and your financial well-being when you try to enforce a law you don't understand -- not that this one is that difficult.

I wish that was so, at least to some extent -- but the Barney Fife defense does work in court, a lot of the time, and the way things are set up, in order for punitives to punish a badly behaving LEO, he or she has to be pried loose from his municipality's checkbook. Just to pick a recent example, it wasn't the devoted public servants in their executioners' hoods who ended up paying over the Khang raid -- it was the Minneapolis taxpayers.

But not all cops at the State Fair can necessarily count on having all of their bills paid by taxpayers.

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 Post subject: Re: Carry at the State Fair?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:31 pm 
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J.C. Garand wrote:
How can the fairgrounds become private property for two weeks a year and then State property the rest of the year? Does the Fair board pay the property taxes for the period that it is private property? As private property, are they allowed to have a police force? Maybe they should just hire private security. According to their web site, the Fair board is a "quasi- state agency". I read that as they are not state funded but still state owned. Am I misreading something here?



37.20 SPECIAL PEACE OFFICERS.
The secretary or the president of the society may appoint, in a writing signed by either of them, as many peace officers, as defined in section 626.84, subdivision 1, clause (c), as are necessary, both during the annual fair and throughout the year for the regulation of the Minnesota State Fairgrounds. These peace officers, before entering upon their duties, shall take and subscribe the usual oath of office, endorsed upon their appointment. They have upon the fairgrounds all the power and authority of peace officers and may, within these limits, without warrant, arrest any person found violating state law or any rule, bylaw, or ordinance of the society. They may summarily remove the persons and property of the offenders from the grounds, and take them before any court of competent jurisdiction to be dealt with according to law. Each peace officer shall wear an appropriate badge of office while acting as a peace officer. The society may also contract with the state, any county, or any municipality for police service and protection on the fairgrounds.
History:
(7879) RL s 3091; 1965 c 796 s 2; 1982 c 625 s 11; 1985 c 265 art 2 s 1


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 Post subject: Re: Carry at the State Fair?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:37 pm 
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Yup; the Fair is a governmental entity.

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 Post subject: Re: Carry at the State Fair?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:03 pm 
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G129 wrote:
I have been told the fair grounds are private property during the fair (I expect many of you will argue otherwise)

You're right. Even the State Fair Director argued otherwise.

G129 wrote:
and the fair policy is no weapons allowed.


Law trumps policy.

April 28, 2003.
http://www.senate.leg.state.mn.us/briefly/2003/Aprilupdates/0428floor.htm

Quote:
Discussion also centered on whether the State Fair is permitted to ban permit holders from carrying guns onto the fairgrounds or into the grandstand. [...] Sen. Thomas Neuville (R-Northfield) said he was advised that the State Fair is a private organization, and as such, could ban firearms. However, he later revised his statement and said new advice from the State Fair director indicated the fair is a public organization. Neuville also noted that current law does not permit the State Fair to deny permit holders access to the fairgrounds, so no change is being made in law.

(I'm pretty sure the director then was Jerry Hammer)


Last edited by mp on Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Carry at the State Fair?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:15 pm 
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Macx wrote:
Seems like that would also be a LEOSA violation. Maybe we need to get a cop to be our test case.


I probably qualified. I didn't work the fair, but attended it with my family two days. I carried, concealed, both days.

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 Post subject: Re: Carry at the State Fair?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:31 pm 
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I drove by the fair with my gun on my hip, does that qualify?


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 Post subject: Re: Carry at the State Fair?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:20 am 
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http://www.yellowpages.state.mn.us/is/yellowpages.nsf/58ff101d11e1f3d786256b2900205e6a/2c4f3c03c712949d86256b050075ce5e?OpenDocument

Quote:
The society is a semi-state agency, autonomous and self-governing.[...]
The society came into being as a territorial organization in 1854. It was legally organized as a public corporation in 1860 and became an arm of state government in 1903.

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 Post subject: Re: Carry at the State Fair?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:28 am 
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you know, I wonder if audio records of that exchange would be retained?

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 Post subject: Re: Carry at the State Fair?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:21 pm 
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Tman, that was exactly what I meant. Officers from this or any other state carrying under LEOSA, who are not on duty with their own dept nor working for the fair in any way, yet in attendance.

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 Post subject: Re: Carry at the State Fair?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:13 am 
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i used to go to the fair 2 or 3 times each year and i did not worry about in the fair grounds, like many of you it is getting from your vehicle to and from the grounds.
i would look around at the other folks knowing that they had come to the fair with quite a bit of money and were probably leaving with it. we were perfect targets - tired, full on food and still had money in the pocket and walking in the dark for many blocks.
this is where i wished i was carrying as a few times i was quite happy to make it to my car when seeing who was approaching from the other direction. :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: Carry at the State Fair?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:45 am 
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Saunassa wrote:
i would look around at the other folks knowing that they had come to the fair with quite a bit of money and were probably leaving with it. we were perfect targets - tired, full on food and still had money in the pocket and walking in the dark for many blocks.


Let me get this straight....people leave the fair and still have money in their pockets? How does that happen? :P

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 Post subject: Re: Carry at the State Fair?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:24 am 
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tman065 wrote:
Saunassa wrote:
i would look around at the other folks knowing that they had come to the fair with quite a bit of money and were probably leaving with it. we were perfect targets - tired, full on food and still had money in the pocket and walking in the dark for many blocks.


Let me get this straight....people leave the fair and still have money in their pockets? How does that happen? :P


They go and end up not finding as much worthwhile stuff as they prepared for. $4.50 small Leinenkugel beer? I'll pass. Besides, the Swedish Egg Coffee is a whole dollar. Doesn't break the bank :D


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