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 Woman Brings Loaded Gun into Hennepin Co. Court 
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 Post subject: Re: Woman Brings Loaded Gun into Hennepin Co. Court
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:04 am 
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plblark wrote:
Tempting, very tempting
Quote:
There is an error in your story located at: http://www.startribune.com/local/52619502.html

In the story, you state that:
"State law allows people with permits to carry pistols but prohibits the weapons from courthouse complexes unless the county sheriff has given permission, the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension website says."

While the BCA website is generally good, the governing law in this case is 609.66 Sub 1g (https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/dat ... 09/66.html):

Subd. 1g. Felony; possession in courthouse or certain
state buildings. (a) A person who commits either of the
following acts is guilty of a felony and may be sentenced to
imprisonment for not more than five years or to payment of a
fine of not more than $10,000, or both:
(1) possesses a dangerous weapon, ammunition, or explosives
within any courthouse complex;
[...]
(b) Unless a person is otherwise prohibited or restricted
by other law to possess a dangerous weapon, this subdivision
does not apply to:

[...]
(2) persons who carry pistols according to the terms of a
permit issued under section 624.714 and who so notify the "
sheriff or the commissioner of public safety, as appropriate;

You will note that it does not say "Receives permission from" but rather "NOTIFY".


Thumbs up! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Woman Brings Loaded Gun into Hennepin Co. Court
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:09 am 
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question: Should I include my Jury Duty anecdote from Ramsey Co? Or is that giving too much ground in validating the Judge's order?

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Brings Loaded Gun into Hennepin Co. Court
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:18 am 
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An aside: Ramsey County seems to have workable system in place to handle this.

I was called for Jury Duty a couple weeks ago and here's how it worked out.
I sent my notification letter to Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher the same day my Jury notification came in. I also printed 2 copies to take with me to the courthouse.
Upon arrival at the courthouse, I had a deputy read my notification letter and sign and date it with his badge number. I kept this copy as a receipt and left the other with the deputy for his records.
I presented my State Issued ID and Carry permit to the deputy.
The deputy found the keys to the lock boxes they keep at the North and South main entrances and I placed my firearm and cellular phone along with a business card into the locked box.
The deputy locked things up, I proceeded through the metal detector without incident and proceeded to Jury Duty.
At the end of the day, I presented my ID and the deputy on duty unlocked the box.
Easy as pie.
I performed 5 days of Jury Duty and things ran pretty smoothly.

The key here was knowing the rules, and being very careful to keep on the right side of them.

The only hiccup is that the first deputy to ask about my notification letter did so on Wednesday afternoon. That would be day 3. I had inquired of the deputies on the first day to make sure how the process worked and they mentioned nothing about the letter. When I handed him the letter to sign, he seemed surprised. It's surprising that the deputies checking me out on Monday, in and out on Tuesday, and in on Wednesday did not ask about the letter. Had I been less aware, I could have found myself in this woman's shoes on Wednesday afternoon despite having interacted with 5 other deputies in the security area.

Factually, the law says:
Quote:
Subd. 23. Exclusivity. This section sets forth the complete and exclusive criteria and procedures for the issuance
of permits to carry and establishes their nature and scope. No sheriff, police chief, governmental unit, government official, government employee, or other person or body acting under color of law or governmental authority may change, modify, or supplement these criteria or procedures, or limit the exercise of a permit to carry.


Which specifically includes the courthouse complex. Currently, it's a court order issued by the chief judge that makes Carry by a law abiding permit holder into contempt of court. Had she given notice, the most this woman would be guilty of is contempt of court. It's unsurprising that these court orders are not posted or prominently displayed. Telepathy is apparently supposed to inform the permit holder of the court's un-checked attempt to contravene black letter law.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Brings Loaded Gun into Hennepin Co. Court
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:20 am 
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On June 4, Swensen was going through the weapons screening station at the courthouse's Family Justice Center. Swensen placed her bag on the conveyor belt, retrieved it and left before security officers noticed that the bag appeared to contain a handgun.



I'm sorry. What the hell are they getting paid to do in the first place? ARGH!

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Brings Loaded Gun into Hennepin Co. Court
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:08 pm 
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It is perhaps like the crime of "making a cop run". You do not run from the police because when they catch you . .. :bang: is less fun & you get those relevant charges added to boot. Apparently you should only make the metal detectors go off if you are wearing a belt with a buckle or boots with metal eyelets or the same deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Brings Loaded Gun into Hennepin Co. Court
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:12 pm 
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Macx wrote:
It is perhaps like the crime of "making a cop run". You do not run from the police because when they catch you . .. :bang: is less fun & you get those relevant charges added to boot. Apparently you should only make the metal detectors go off if you are wearing a belt with a buckle or boots with metal eyelets or the same deal.


I'm pretty sure that they ran the bag through an x-ray screener and not the metal detector. The shape of a gun is fairly sinuglar.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Brings Loaded Gun into Hennepin Co. Court
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:20 pm 
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Yeah, that is the thing that makes me itchy about them charging her. If you know you have a metal gun shaped gun in your bag, you don't put the bag on the conveyor. That she did speaks gives a little + credibility to her excuse & that she is being charged speaks to "post chase beating" for making the metal detector/ X-ray guys "work".

This is what the charges are about
Quote:
Swensen placed her bag on the conveyor belt, retrieved it and left before security officers noticed that the bag appeared to contain a handgun.
Embarasment over being alseep at the wheel is best fixed by criminal charges against the pedestrian.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Brings Loaded Gun into Hennepin Co. Court
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:03 pm 
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A quick look at the relevant statutesmakes it look to me that it only takes POSSESSION of the firearm in the court house. You don't need
the INTENT as an element of the crime.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Brings Loaded Gun into Hennepin Co. Court
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:00 pm 
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I would VERY strongly advise Alyx to shut up and lawyer up, right about NOW.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Brings Loaded Gun into Hennepin Co. Court
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:27 am 
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Yup, to all of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Brings Loaded Gun into Hennepin Co. Court
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:05 am 
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tman065 wrote:
A quick look at the relevant statutesmakes it look to me that it only takes POSSESSION of the firearm in the court house. You don't need
the INTENT as an element of the crime.


Well she would have to INTEND to possess it. Shes said she just FORGOT. If she has a permit and normally carries she's got an argument. But without a permit she can't make s credible argument that she innocently runs around with the gun.

As an aside, her statement that "I just forgot.", now really forecloses any other theory of defense for her attorney. Her counsel is "stuck" with that statement. It may well be that somebody else put her gun in her purse, or that she did not intend the gun to be in the purse, or even that she grabbed the wrong purse. Who knows? Anything could have happened; it's a complicated world.

But now she's stuck with "I forgot". That's an admission that the gun was hers, and that she knew she carried it in her purse generally. "I just forgot" is a statement that is actually a CONFESSION in court. Which is why all the lawyers say just shutup and ask for a lawyer. Say NOTHING. Don't show your damn cards to your opponents.

(Or, if you're the cop, smile nicely and tell the person you're sure they have a "good explaination" for this...) :P


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 Post subject: Re: Woman Brings Loaded Gun into Hennepin Co. Court
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:55 am 
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Well, I guess it appears she DOES have a permit and thought the gun was in the glove box of her car. I just heard about that. It's a pretty technical violation for a felony charge. :evil: Outstate, where we have better prosecutors, I think "prosecutorial discretion" would result in no prosecution for this, depending on her attitude. She's passed all the background checks; this is what turns folks against our justice system.


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 Post subject: Re: Woman Brings Loaded Gun into Hennepin Co. Court
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:53 am 
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Dick Unger wrote:
Well, I guess it appears she DOES have a permit and thought the gun was in the glove box of her car. I just heard about that. It's a pretty technical violation for a felony charge. :evil: Outstate, where we have better prosecutors, I think "prosecutorial discretion" would result in no prosecution for this, depending on her attitude. She's passed all the background checks; this is what turns folks against our justice system.


I am a firm believer that this should be prosecuted...sort of. I think it would be reasonable to charge her and then offer a continuance for dismissal, with conditions: no same / similar, remain law abiding, etc. The County Attorney can say they are holding her accountable by keeping an open file, and she can make it all go away by not being stupid again for say, 6 months or so.

win / win.

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 Post subject: Re: Woman Brings Loaded Gun into Hennepin Co. Court
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:32 am 
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Well, that's the cleanest way for the authorities, I guess.

But she's passed the backgrond check, she's a certified good guy, and a chat in the office with a mature prosecutor and cop would accomplish the same thing withot her having to hire an attorney, have her name in the paper and have a "record" for all the losers in the system (like the permit granters in Ramsey) to hassel her with forever. She knows she screwed up but no one was put in any danger.

Insted we'll spend a lot of money and efffort that could actually be used to make the city safer, make her lose sleep and money, and piss a lot of us off a little more. Bet she'll have a different attitude when tbhis is over, and it won't be a better attitude either.

Too bad they don't put grownups in charge in the Metro.


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 Post subject: Re: Woman Brings Loaded Gun into Hennepin Co. Court
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:03 pm 
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I have no problem with her losing a little sleep and money over this.

And I am still pissed that the screeners initially missed it. That's the entire reason they are there. DOH! :bang:

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