Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive :: View topic

72_chev_truck wrote:

I would like to begin by saying I have not yet been able to afford to take Joel's carry class or afford the permit cost that goes with it.

I am having an open dialogue with a pro gun officer that thinks it is illegal to carry openly because he has never seen a statute specifying its legality with a carry permit. I took the angle with him that if it is not specifically mentioned in the statutes, I would take that to mean that it is perfectly legal to carry open.

Can someone please direct me to the statutes that mention open carry legality?

Thanks

Please do not turn this into an open carry vs conceal carry debate.

Andrew Rothman wrote:

Tell you what: he can come to my carry class on the 23rd for free: he certainly sounds as if he needs some remedial education.

kecker wrote:

Andrew Rothman wrote:

Tell you what: he can come to my carry class on the 23rd for free: he certainly sounds as if he needs some remedial education.

If I were to type that out I would have typed it out as ".....he certainly sounds as if he needs some education.".

kecker wrote:

Your friend has a rather perverted view of the law.

72_chev_truck wrote:

Thanks folks, I thought that was the case that it meant you could carry any way you wish.

Andrew Rothman wrote:

I'd like to know what department he works for, as he has clearly been under-trained and under-screened.

72_chev_truck wrote:

I am having an open dialogue with a pro gun officer that thinks it is illegal to carry openly because he has never seen a statute specifying its legality with a carry permit. I took the angle with him that if it is not specifically mentioned in the statutes, I would take that to mean that it is perfectly legal to carry open.

72_chev_truck wrote:

Another question, I think I know this but I just want to verify.

No carry signs carry no legal weight in MN correct?

So as I understand it, you can still carry there and if caught and requested to leave you must leave or face trespassing charges. Am I correct on that? UNLESS of course that property happens to be one of the prohibited areas.

As for outing this friend of mine, I will absolutely not give any information regarding his department. I will work to educate this individual on what the state laws are.

I have a permit in SD mainly because it takes a form, $10, and you have your temp permit that day and a regular permit within a couple weeks.

72_chev_truck wrote:

As for outing this friend of mine, I will absolutely not give any information regarding his department. I will work to educate this individual on what the state laws are.

Author:	72_chev_truck [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Regarding Open Carry in MN
I would like to begin by saying I have not yet been able to afford to take Joel's carry class or afford the permit cost that goes with it. I am having an open dialogue with a pro gun officer that thinks it is illegal to carry openly because he has never seen a statute specifying its legality with a carry permit. I took the angle with him that if it is not specifically mentioned in the statutes, I would take that to mean that it is perfectly legal to carry open. Can someone please direct me to the statutes that mention open carry legality? Thanks Please do not turn this into an open carry vs conceal carry debate.

Author:	kecker [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN
72_chev_truck wrote: I would like to begin by saying I have not yet been able to afford to take Joel's carry class or afford the permit cost that goes with it. I am having an open dialogue with a pro gun officer that thinks it is illegal to carry openly because he has never seen a statute specifying its legality with a carry permit. I took the angle with him that if it is not specifically mentioned in the statutes, I would take that to mean that it is perfectly legal to carry open. Can someone please direct me to the statutes that mention open carry legality? Thanks Please do not turn this into an open carry vs conceal carry debate. Your friend has a rather perverted view of the law. Taken to it's logical conclusion we live in a police state where only that which is specifically permitted is legal. I know several countries that operate that way, this is not one of them. The law never mentions concealment, therefore it is legal despite your friends frame of mine. And to be quite honest, and I honestly mean no offense, but if that's the frame of mind with which your friend approaches the law I'm not sure law enforcement is a good field for him/her.

Author:	Andrew Rothman [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN
Ask him whether it's legal to wear a red shirt on a Tuesday -- there's no statute specifying its legality, either. Do this: ask him, when he made the arrest, what statute he would cite as being violated? He sounds like an absolute embarrassment to the profession, if he has that little understanding of how the law works. I'd like to know what department he works for, as he has clearly been under-trained and under-screened. Tell you what: he can come to my carry class on the 23rd for free: he certainly sounds as if he needs some remedial education.

Author:	dismal [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN
If he doens't believe you, have him see the MN BCA's stance on #22: http://www.dps.state.mn.us/bca/CJIS/Doc ... /FAQs.html

Author:	kecker [ Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN
Andrew Rothman wrote: Tell you what: he can come to my carry class on the 23rd for free: he certainly sounds as if he needs some remedial education. If I were to type that out I would have typed it out as ".....he certainly sounds as if he needs some education.".

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Author:	Andrew Rothman [ Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN
kecker wrote: Andrew Rothman wrote: Tell you what: he can come to my carry class on the 23rd for free: he certainly sounds as if he needs some remedial education. If I were to type that out I would have typed it out as ".....he certainly sounds as if he needs some education.". You know me -- I try to be kind and gentle.

Author:	Traveler [ Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN
kecker wrote: Your friend has a rather perverted view of the law. My nomination for the understatement of the year!

Author:	72_chev_truck [ Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN
Thanks folks, I thought that was the case that it meant you could carry any way you wish.

Author:	joelr [ Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN
72_chev_truck wrote: Thanks folks, I thought that was the case that it meant you could carry any way you wish. Yup. Longer form . . . The authoritarian view: anything not specifically permitted is prohibited. "Where's the law that says you can carry openly, if you have a permit? If I don't see it, I won't let you do it." The American view: anything not specifically prohibited is permitted. "Where's the law forbidding open carry? Oh -- there isn't one. Have a nice day, citizen." This guy needs remedial third grade civics.

Author:	mnglocker [ Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN
Andrew Rothman wrote: I'd like to know what department he works for, as he has clearly been under-trained and under-screened. I'd like to know so I can get some $$$ from a wrongful arrest suit.

Author:	Lenny7 [ Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN
72_chev_truck wrote: I am having an open dialogue with a pro gun officer that thinks it is illegal to carry openly because he has never seen a statute specifying its legality with a carry permit. I took the angle with him that if it is not specifically mentioned in the statutes, I would take that to mean that it is perfectly legal to carry open. Others have answered the question, but I'd like to thank you for your efforts in setting him straight. Once he gets it, ask him to tell his cohorts.

Author:	havegunjoe [ Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN
The terminology used in the Statute is, “on or about the person’s clothes or the person, or otherwise in possession or control”. It does not say anything about hidden from view, or concealed as a requirement.

Author:	72_chev_truck [ Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN
Another question, I think I know this but I just want to verify. No carry signs carry no legal weight in MN correct? So as I understand it, you can still carry there and if caught and requested to leave you must leave or face trespassing charges. Am I correct on that? UNLESS of course that property happens to be one of the prohibited areas. As for outing this friend of mine, I will absolutely not give any information regarding his department. I will work to educate this individual on what the state laws are. I have a permit in SD mainly because it takes a form, $10, and you have your temp permit that day and a regular permit within a couple weeks.

Author:	mrokern [ Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN
72_chev_truck wrote: Another question, I think I know this but I just want to verify. No carry signs carry no legal weight in MN correct? So as I understand it, you can still carry there and if caught and requested to leave you must leave or face trespassing charges. Am I correct on that? UNLESS of course that property happens to be one of the prohibited areas. As for outing this friend of mine, I will absolutely not give any information regarding his department. I will work to educate this individual on what the state laws are. I have a permit in SD mainly because it takes a form, $10, and you have your temp permit that day and a regular permit within a couple weeks. Sure they do. They serve as notification. A verbal "we don't allow guns in this store" can also serve as notification. Process for a permit holder to get in trouble: 1) Be notified that the establishment bans guns 2) Be asked to leave the establishment 3) Refuse to leave after being asked 4) Be dumb enough to stick around to get a trespassing ticket from the responding officer Signs play a role in #1. Is there a penalty for just carrying past a sign in MN? No. But it doesn't mean that a sign isn't part of the process. Carrying into a prohibited area (e.g. jail, airport)...yeah. THOSE signs will smack you hard if you disobey. -Mark

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Author:	Andrew Rothman [ Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Regarding Open Carry in MN
72_chev_truck wrote: As for outing this friend of mine, I will absolutely not give any information regarding his department. I will work to educate this individual on what the state laws are. I don't think you understand how egregious it is that this "law enforcement" officer not only doesn't know the carry law, but doesn't understand how the American legal system works. If your characterizations of him were correct, he needs far more remedial education than you can provide.