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 MPR "cold case squad" 
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:04 pm 
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Yes, Navegar (and perhaps others) did some advertising about fingerprint resistance. The Califonia Supreme Court noted that:

Navegar also distributed an advertising brochure or catalog describing its guns and accessories, which it mailed to anyone interested and, on at least one occasion, printed in special issue magazines. In a page describing the TEC-KOTE finish, Navegar claimed the finish provided "natural lubicity [sic] to increase bullet velocities, excellent resistance to finger prints, sweat rust, petroleum distillates of all types, gun solvents, gun cleaners, and all powder residues. Salt spray corrosion resistance, expansion and contraction of the metal will not result in peeling of finish."

MARILYN MERRILL et al., Plaintiffs and Appellants, v. NAVEGAR, INC., Defendant and Respondent.

No. S083466.

SUPREME COURT OF CALIFORNIA

26 Cal. 4th 465;28 P.3d 116;110 Cal. Rptr. 2d 370;2001 Cal. LEXIS 4945;CCH Prod. Liab. Rep. P16,123;2001 Cal. Daily Op. Service 6704;2001 Daily Journal DAR 8171

August 6, 2001, Decided

You can see a copy of the advertisement in question at http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Kairys1.htm, about halfway down the document.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:13 pm 
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Sorry for the double post--the system was acting goofy.

My other point: It's not exactly giving criminals secret, helpful, inside information to suggest that sniper techniques are more likely to result in getting away with a murder than an up-close, on-the-scene confrontation. I can't see that there's anything wrong with saying that on the radio, when it's just a common-sense observation.

Although I think the most important element in not getting caught would most likely be having no relationship at all to the victim. Looking for motives and past encounters is surely the most productive way of looking for suspects. Hence the plausibility of people exchanging murders, so that each has no connection with his victim, as in "Strangers on a Train" and "Throw Momma from the Train." (By "plausibility," I mean in the sense that it would have a fair chance of working if it were actually carried out, not that it's plausible that two people, otherwise strangers, would be likely to actually meet in a way that would cause them to work out such a deal.)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:03 am 
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bab wrote:
I want to like NPR. I believe they are more proffessional than many media outlets, but sadly I've heard a fair amount of crap from them concerning guns. My favorite was a piece about "assault weapons" in which their intrepid reporter went to the range and saw/tried an AR. She was shocked to report that these military style weapons are capable of hitting a man sized target at the almost unbelievable range of ..... 100 yards! :shock:

OH MY GOD!!! Stop the madness, think of the children!!! These modern high tech military rifles have so far surpassed legitimate hunting rifles that they are capable of such incredible accuracy! For what possible legal reason could one want to hit a man (or deer) sized target that far away :roll:

I agree that MPR's journalism generally appears to be more serious, thoughtful and in-depth and seems to rely less on blatant and inflamatory rhetoric and all the other entertainment tactics that seem to have made commercial news interests look pretty vacant.

But when they actually discuss and issue with strong divisions between conservative/liberal, it almost always seems that the liberal sources or guests they have outnumber the conservatives or are a mismatch.

They also tend to approach a number of issues from a squishy, liberal perspective that's probably thought to be creative/insightful/human interesty but ends up just sounding biased.

We'll never know, but I'd imagine that MPR has data identifying their key markets and audiences and that sees the majority of them as left-leaning self-identified liberals who are looking for news that reinforces their perspective.

It's why I wish there was an NPR that made the same journalistic decisions as MPR, but whose starting point was from a different perspective.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:10 am 
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rwoolley wrote:
Although I think the most important element in not getting caught would most likely be having no relationship at all to the victim. Looking for motives and past encounters is surely the most productive way of looking for suspects.


Isn't this how so many serial killers seem to get away with it? Many seem to choose random victims they have no acquiantaince with, in addition to a scary psychotic intellgience that makes them careful to not get caught.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:22 am 
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Robert - Thanks for the post ... this issue has been a thorn in my side for couple years and am glad to have some facts. I read the lawsuit but wish I could have read some of those poorly scanned ads a little better.

When the so-called Assault Weapons ban was passed, IntraTec was the focal point for the anti's grievances. And, who do we find front and center for the "finger print" issue? IntraTec.

This is a company that has done unspeakable and continued damage to the shooting community and everything pro 2A. What is wrong with IntraTec? They merchandise the 2A but care little for trust of liberty that it represents. To them, it is an article allowing them to ply a trade, nothing more. Their ads never fail to make the basest appeals.

Diane Feinstein and Sarah Brady will always find an unwitting ally in them. Like Stalin's "Useful Idiots", IntraTec will always be hand in hand with the anti's.

What PR nightmare will they cause us next? I pray they are out of business, lest they continue to delight in peeing in our pool.

Rant off.

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 Post subject: Re: Thanks
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:47 am 
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lance22 wrote:
When the so-called Assault Weapons ban was passed, IntraTec was the focal point for the anti's grievances. And, who do we find front and center for the "finger print" issue? IntraTec.


IntraTec's biggest sin, I believe, is making crappy products. But the "fingerprint issue" takes their ads WAY out of context. When you look at the whole list...

Quote:
Navegar claimed the finish provided "natural lubicity [sic] to increase bullet velocities, excellent resistance to finger prints, sweat rust, petroleum distillates of all types, gun solvents, gun cleaners, and all powder residues.


They list six or seven things that the gun resists, and the other items listed CLEARLY show that the issue is durability and cleanability.

I doubt very much that the finish keeps skin oils from sticking, which would make them handy for criminals. Rather, I'd guess, the finish prevents DAMAGE from such fingerprints.

It's the usual half-truths and insinuations that the other side always uses.



Would the Mommies attack Dockers for advertising superior stain resistance? I mean, that is just an INVITATION to ax-murder someone, knowing that the blood stains will come out in the wash.



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 Post subject: biggest sin? Indifference.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:41 am 
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I realize that IntraTek probably didn't imply what the suit alleges. Shoulda said that, I guess. While I'm at it, let me add that I love shooting M4's so I'm not anti cool-looking firearms. :wink:

Matt, when you write you put much thought into what you say. You are careful not to say things that would reflect poorly upon our cause. Same with Joel and others. What I am saying, is that IntraTek does not do this, nor do they seem to care that they don't. All they are good for is staying at the center of controversy, lacking any intelligent thing to say, providing a pulpit to Diane Fienstien again and again.

This whole thing reminds me of that painting of Aristotle and Plato ... one pointing up and the other pointing down. DMPS, Colt, Springfield, Karh, STI and the whole Myriad point up to the 2A as a hinge of civility and liberty. IntraTec and a scant few others point downward because they do not understand liberty other than a means of hawking their wares. They will always be more of a liability than an asset to the shooting community.

That's all I was saying, and for my part 'nuff said.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:28 pm 
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Quote:
...You are careful not to say things that would reflect poorly upon our cause. Same with Joel and others. What I am saying, is that IntraTek does not do this...


First of all, thanks. I do try.

But I would be hard pressed to anticipate that the sentence above would be twisted into making the product look like a crime-friendly gun.

There may be plenty of things about which we could beat up IntraTek -- I don't know, really -- but I don't think this is one of them.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:13 pm 
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Is IntraTek related to Kel-Tec? If so, they might be getting a bad rep because the folks running Kel-Tec seem to be pretty decent, dedicated to producing a reliable product at a decent price.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 8:46 am 
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mobocracy wrote:
It's why I wish there was an NPR that made the same journalistic decisions as MPR, but whose starting point was from a different perspective.


Isn't that Fox News Channel? :lol:

I think the reason that there is always a slight left leaning is because most journalists are left leaning. It really isn't intentional on their part--I've had discussions with them and they genuinely try to be absolutely centered. The problem is that it is impossible! As you stated, the way that you look at problems or what you even consider to *be* a problem is going to vary depending upon your perspective.

The only real solution would be to entice more conservative people to go into journalism and to get conservative spokespersons to network more. The guests get called because the host had contact information before the shows topic was put together. Most shows are put together on a very short timeframe so they are more likely to call the people that have already reached out.


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