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 Traveling, National Park/Forest and Carry 
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 Post subject: Traveling, National Park/Forest and Carry
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:11 am 
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I am planning a road trip for this summer. It looks like out to Montana visiting National Parks and Forests.

It is my understanding:
Carry in National park = Bad
Carry in National Forest with a valid permit for the state = OK

Any problems keeping an unloaded, cased pistol in my trunk in a National Park?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:11 am 
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You don't need a permit to open carry in a National Forest. At least Superior National Forest.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:32 am 
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I too thought that it was a no no in National parks. Or is there a distinction between National Parks and National Forests??


Last edited by MnMonte on Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:13 am 
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MnMonte wrote:
I too that it was a no no in National parks. Or is there a distinction between National Parks and National Forests??


Yup there is. One will get you in very deep excrement, the other is just fine. Based on what I remember from class and some googleing, I think that it is the way that I have it above. If it isn't I (or a mod) can edit it so it is correct.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:40 am 
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Form the:
Quote:
2007 Minnesota Hunting Regulations
NATIONAL FOREST LANDS IN MINNESOTA
...snip...
• Possession of firearms in the National Forest is allowed subject
to state laws regarding carry and concealment and both state
and federal laws regarding prohibited persons.


Oh, also carry in MN state parks (Thanks Andrew Rothman):
Quote:
Subject: Legal carrying of handguns in State Parks for persons licensed under "Conceal and Carry" legislation
From: "Ron Hains"
Date: Mon, Nov 28, 2005 11:03 am
To: <list of names removed -- Andrew>

We have recently completed a review of MS 624.714, Minnesota Citizens' Personal Protection Act. This is commonly known as the "Conceal and Carry" legislation. The bottom line of this review is that a person who is legally permitted under MS 624.714 to carry a handgun in the State of Minnesota, may legally carry that handgun in State Parks. The statute supercedes State Park rule # 6100.0800, which prohibits carrying firearms, other weapons, explosives, etc. Also, there are some states with reciprocal agreements with the State of Minnesota on carrying handguns, and people licensed in those states would also be able to carry in Minnesota, including in state parks. This could change over time, but thanks to Andrew Rothman, Executive Director of the Minnesota Association of Defensive firearm Instructors, currently Arkansas, Louisiana, Utah and Wyoming have these reciprocal agreements with Minnesota. This information is listed on the web at: http://www.dps.state.mn.us/bca/CJIS/Coc ... tates.html

All other parts of the rule, 6100.0800 would still apply to all persons in state parks, and the rules provisions on carrying a handgun would still apply to all persons who do not possess a permit issued under MS 624.714 or are not legally licensed in a state with reciprocal agreements with Minnesota related to the carrying of handguns.

The next time that we revise rules, we will address the conflict between the statute and our rule, possibly with some exclusionary language for permit holders, but that will take some time to put into affect, and we will consult with our attorneys on the appropriate way to address it in the rules.

Until then, please provide this information to permit holders who request information, and please be sure that your local conservation officer is aware of this as well. If you want more complete information, you can check the statute on the web.

Please keep in mind that, in regards to our enforcement authority, vioations of firearms rules and statutes must be handled by a licensed peace officer, so if you suspect that someone is carrying a handgun without an appropriate license, that should be communicated to a conservation officer or other licensed peace officer for their attention.

If you have questions, please check with your supervisor or contact Steve Anderson or me.

Thanks.


Other states may have different regulations regarding carry in their State Parks and National Forests within their borders.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:57 am 
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that would be correct,

National Parks is a no no.

National Forest, check the state of concern.

www.handgunlaw.us

http://www.lcav.org/content/state_local.asp

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:59 am 
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I'm pretty sure you are still allowed to "transport" in a national park as long as it is unloaded and encased. I believe there is a proposed amendment right now, that would allow permit holders to carry in national parks. I'm not sure where that stands, but I'll do some research and see what I can find.

Just curious, Yellowstone or Glacier?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:27 pm 
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http://www.kansascity.com/440/story/584053.html (pasted below)

Highlighting has been added by me...

Quote:
D.W. Mays wants to be able to legally carry a gun with him wherever he goes - even into a national park.

"Protection is one of the main things that should be allowed," said Mays, 90. "If you are going to travel around, you don't know if punks are there. Punks are everywhere."

He and other gun rights enthusiasts say they are glad federal officials are reviewing gun laws in national parks and planning to announce new rules allowing visitors to carry loaded guns - if allowed by state law - by the end of the month.

It's a controversial proposal that has pitted park rangers against lawmakers. Supporters say carrying guns is a constitutionally protected right; opponents say loaded guns will endanger both visitors and animals at national parks.

The proposal would overturn a law restricting loaded guns in national parks put in place in the 1930s, and renewed in the Reagan era, to address the growing issue of poaching. Current rules allow guns in national parks, but only if they are unloaded and stowed away.

"I don't know why anybody needs a loaded gun in a national park," said Ed Hueske. "Despite the fact that I'm a hunter, I still don't know why you need one."

More than 270 million people visited the 291 national parks, recreation sites and monuments in 2006. That year, there were 4,485 crimes at those parks, down from 6,009 in 1995, National Park Service records show. Opponents of the upcoming rules say Americans are more likely to get hit by lightning than they are to be victimized by a gun crime on federal lands.

Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne has been getting heat since announcing the department would review the policy and issue new rules for public comment by April 30.

In Texas, the issue of guns in parks has been a growing controversy over the Christmas Mountains, a desert range next to the Big Bend National Park.

Texas Land Commissioner Jerry Patterson, a Second Amendment advocate who has pushed to sell the property, didn't want to transfer the property to the national park system because of the gun restrictions.

"That you have to have a gun disassembled, unloaded and locked away is the same thing as not having a gun," Patterson said. "It's absurd to think you can ask a perpetrator to stand there and wait while you get your gun and put it together. ... It's patently unconstitutional.

"There have been murders in national parks. But they say they don't want guns there."

Just recently, Patterson asked that the land be designated a national preserve to allow the public to carry firearms and hunt there.

He said the possible new Interior Department rules would be a "great, great result."

"There is a movement to do this," Patterson said. "The friends of the parks think we are all going to die. ... But it's a good thing and it would let national parks be like state parks."

In Texas, visitors to state parks are allowed to have loaded handguns, Patterson said.

Some gun opponents say changing the rules would encourage poaching, boost violence and rid parks of their family-friendly reputation.

"The current laws which require that guns be in an inaccessible place such as the trunk of a car are laws that support safe gun handling," said Lisa Siemers, president of Texans for Gun Safety. "Easily accessible guns mean that animals and people get shot through accidents or impulse.

"Anyone traveling in areas where there are predators should follow the park's suggestions for safety, such as carrying an air horn to scare off predators. This is a safer practice than carrying a loaded gun in a backpack or belt or front seat of the vehicle."
Seven former directors of the National Park Service also oppose a change, saying current rules help make national parks safe.

These rules "are essential to park rangers in carrying out their duties of protecting park resources and wildlife, and in assuring the safety of visitors to the parks," according to a letter they sent to the Interior Department.

Other letters opposing the change were also sent, including one by the Association of National Park Rangers, Coalition of National Park Service Retirees and U.S. Park Rangers Lodge and Fraternal Order of Police.

They said a change could lead to death or injury of wildlife and accidental shootings of people, and hurt efforts to stop poaching.

"There is simply no legitimate or substantive reason for a thoughtful sportsman or gun owner to carry a loaded gun in a national park unless that park permits hunting," their letter states. "The requirement that guns in parks are unloaded and put away is a reasonable and limited restriction to facilitate legitimate purposes - the protection of precious park resources and safety of visitors."

The National Rifle Association has long argued for a change in the law.

Late last year, a group of 50 senators - nine Democrats and 41 Republicans - joined the debate, sending a letter to the Interior Department supporting a change, saying the rules are confusing and unneeded.

Proposals to change the rules through bills in Congress have stalled, leading the senators to can on the Interior Department for change.

"Self-defense is a basic human right - no reason to void it in national parks," said Mike Stollenwerk, co-founder of OpenCarry.org, a pro-gun Internet community. "All we are asking is for the federal government to join the rest of the nation and decriminalize normal everyday citizen gun carry."

Stollenwerk, who lives in Virginia but owns a home in Killeen, Texas, drives on roads that cross through national parks and visits the Great Falls National Park each year.

He said he would carry a loaded gun onto park land during those drives or visits if he could.

"Just like I carry often in daily life, and more so when in parks on journeys," he said.


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