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 My 1st Defensive Use Tonight, hopefully my last (Skyway) 
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:11 am 
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MnMonte wrote:
To raise another question where would "duty to retreat" fit into this sceanario?

If in a car, drive away as fast a safely as possible. On foot there is no way I would risk running. I would try to create distance between me and the aggressor. I guess that is sorta a retreat. At least I hope I would do this.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:29 am 
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In as much as he did not actually display a weapon I think you did well under adverse circumstances to not display yours. Hard judgement to make though. My hats off to you and your ability to maintain composure in a extreme situation.

If only to nitpick, I am in Andrew's camp in that overall it would have been very helpful for you to have waited for the arrival of a authorities. I think that would help to keep the circle going to closure.

Also keep in mind and as you further tell the story to others emphasize that you were a RELUCTANT PARTICIPANT :!:

Godspeed, Scott

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:33 am 
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In principle, I agree with Andrew on the waiting around part; in practice, given that a Forum member recently called the MPD on shots being fired outside of his home and they never arrived, I'm not terribly optimistic.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:35 am 
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Good job. I'm glad you and your girlfriend were not harmed.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:01 am 
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okay...my nit-pick on the nit=pickers...what crime did the "perp" commit? what are you going to tell the cops? The guy looked dangerous? I don't think I missed any part of the story...a lot of hypothetical what do you want the cops to do...take away his cell phone?..I agree, If as composed as you, I would've done the same thing, including calling 911...but I wouldn't see the cops spending much time on this whether you waited around or not...


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:11 am 
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johnnyg08 wrote:
okay...my nit-pick on the nit=pickers...what crime did the "perp" commit?


ruffelo wrote:
As we entered this particular overpass, he stepped towards the middle with his hand inside his jacket and loudly commanded, "Don't Move! "



His actions implied that he had a gun inside his jacket and was going to kill both of them if they moved.

To me it sounds like the first step of an attemped armed robbery, and if the DA is good they could slap his ass with "Making a terroristic threat".


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:12 am 
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I should add, Ruffelo, sounds like you did good. 8) you just have to play it like The Fonze... be cool, and you did.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:17 am 
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I’d say that was about as perfect a use of a gun in self-defense with the desired outcome that you can ask for. Excellent job! Just an observation that it is interesting that the police didn’t care if you stayed or not.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:23 am 
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Will this count as a DGU in the 2008 MCPPA stats?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:38 am 
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Suited wrote:
Will this count as a DGU in the 2008 MCPPA stats?


Somehow I doubt it.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:18 pm 
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mnglocker wrote:
His actions implied that he had a gun inside his jacket and was going to kill both of them if they moved.


Hmmm...I'm not sure, but a person reaching into his jacket, to assume that he's reaching for a gun...is a bit presumtive isn't it? I get what you're saying...but...maybe while on the phone he's reaching for a pen to jot down a phone number from whomever he's talking to? "Don't move..." Last time I checked that doesn't have much to do with a Terroristic Threat...good luck prosecuting that one...

I'm on the permit holder's team here, but sometimes a person can walk the line of paranoid verus prepared...thoughts?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:20 pm 
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DGU = Defensive Gun Use

I had to Google it.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:27 pm 
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I think I just saw the guy in the same spot just now. Blue jacket, blue pants. About a five-day beard growth, dark, messy hair, most of it standing straight up.

He was talking to himself and seemed like he wanted to pan-handle the various folks ignoring him.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:39 pm 
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johnnyg08 wrote:
okay...my nit-pick on the nit=pickers...what crime did the "perp" commit? what are you going to tell the cops? The guy looked dangerous? I don't think I missed any part of the story...a lot of hypothetical what do you want the cops to do...take away his cell phone?..I agree, If as composed as you, I would've done the same thing, including calling 911...but I wouldn't see the cops spending much time on this whether you waited around or not...
Well, were it me, and I was going to fill in the dots (I don't think I'd have to) it might be something like (assuming this is what happened to me), "Well, this fellow [description] approached me, body language very aggressive, and yelled, 'Don't move'. I said, "Can I help you? And put my hand out like this, to tell him to keep his distance, at which point he ran away.

"Maybe he was a very disreputable-looking stockbroker, telling me that he felt that my assets shouldn't be liquidated and reinvested at this point, but, given his manner, I felt threatened.

"Making me feel threatened isn't a crime, but perhaps were somebody in authority to have a quick chat with him, they might find some cause that would justify a further investigation. Such things have been known to happen."

And, I'd be thinking, if I've guessed correctly that [I'm just picking this as an example] the particular perp was a meth head who supports his habit by mugging people, he might smell like a meth head, and a Terry frisk pr a consensual search might legitimately find all sorts of naughtinesses about his person -- weapons, drugs, other folks' property.

Nope; nobody should be arrested and/or prosecuted simply because of a feeling, accurate or inaccurate -- but feelings can, and sometime do, lead to a situation where an arrest becomes lawful and legitimate.

As to the cops spending time, who knows? If the guy's looks are distinctive and he's been hassling a lot of folks -- even if he hasn't been committing violent crimes -- some cops would make a point to (legitimately) see what his story is, and whether they can develop some information that might lead to something else.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:56 pm 
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Yaa sure, the guy may have been just fiddling with his cell phone or other such behavior. BUT the manner in which he was conveying himself was sufficient enough for ruffelo to be fearful, causing him to take defensive steps. And as far as perceived actions the "gentleman" may misjudged thinking the ruffelo was reaching for a weapon, when in fact he may have only been reaching around to scratch his posterior. But I am inclined to be a little more pragmatic. Each had a good sense of what the others intentions were.

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