For what it's worth, he was booked and released.

What consequences he risked facing himself have no bearing on the legality or the morality of his actions.

That he risked being charged with a felony is perhaps relevant to whether his behavior was wise. It's irrelevant to whether his behavior was legal or whether his behavior was justified.

Sure. There's lots of stuff that's utterly legal and varying degrees of foolish. I'm not sure -- either way -- whether holding somebody at gunpoint over a possible driving violation is lawful, but (absent other possible facts) it's utterly stupid.

Yeah, the guy might have appeared drunk, and if let go, he might have squashed a kid. So now -- assuming all that -- the guy gets to be a pioneer in making case law on "reasonable" force in citizens arrest. If -- as is likely -- he doesn't plead out.

Doesn't anybody find it odd that no names have been mentioned?

I'm not talking about the booking report - which is an educated guess.

This seems like 'big' deal with very little news reporting.

I'm trying to figure out the shorthand in the booking report; "G", "M", "F", "MS", etc.

No answers googling but I found Mn law forbids guns in parks.

No, it doesn't -- not for permit holders.

I stand corrected.

I was skimming and should have said Mn law forbids 'exhibiting' a weapon.

I rely on your expertise that permitees are excepted.

[http://www.crimeandpunishment.net/MN/chart.html ]

For every rule there is an exception.

I just saw this, and read through all posts. I'm of the opinion that I'll wait and see how it ends before passing judgement. I'm willing to give the permit holder the benefit of the doubt until such time as I'm convinced otherwise. The media and police repts are usually very biased against us-to the point of sensationalism. What IF the permit holder was acting as a reasonable person who believed that many bystanders/children were in imminent danger if the driver in question had been allowed to continue? None of us were there, none of us were in the permit holders' shoes to know what was going through his mind... I'll take a neutral stance with a bias towards support of the permit holder until the real facts are out... If the Police/Cty Attorney do decide to prosecute, anything they release/say will be slanted towards prosecution...but there IS another side to this incident. Innocent until proven guilty-in court.

I think I saw that movie. He should have read 'the book'

Rochester is a "unique" sort of place. The powers that be don't really like bad news of any kind. I almost expect this to be swept under the carpet...



I believe that it's:
G = Gross misdemeanor
M = Misdemeanor
F = Felony
[/quote]

Dismal,

Thanks for the info.

http://www.postbulletin.com/newsmanager ... 2&a=350749

Three could be charged for gun incidents on July 4
7/7/2008 10:55:02 AM
Comments (1)

By Janice Gregorson
Post-Bulletin, Rochester MN

A man who said he was just celebrating the Fourth of July could face criminal charges for firing his shotgun in the backyard.

Police Capt. Brian Winters said the 64-year-old Rochester man was taken into custody and could face criminal charges of reckless discharge of a firearm.

Police were called about 10:30 p.m. after a citizen heard gunshots. Officers went to a residence in the 3700 block of Seventh Street Northwest and found an intoxicated man. He admitted taking his 20-gauge shotgun into the backyard in celebration of the Fourth of July and shot three rounds into the ground. Winters said he was taken to the detoxification center and could face criminal charges.

Charges could also be filed against men arrested in separate gun incidents on the Fourth of July.

Winters said both a 25-year-old man who said he pulled out a gun to stop a vehicle, and the driver of the vehicle, could face charges. That incident occurred about 7 p.m. Friday. The 24-year-old driver said he was trying to leave the parking lot on Seventh Street near the Silver Lake pool. He said he was trying to turn right but was startled by oncoming traffic, accelerated and went over a curb. He hit a telephone box, went across a sidewalk, then back across a driveway and hit a tree. At this time he was facing west.

He was backing away from the tree when confronted by the 25-year-old Rochester man. Winters said that man said he was sitting nearby with his family waiting for the fireworks display when he saw the accident and thought someone had been hit. Winters said the area was heavily populated at the time with people coming for the fireworks display. The Rochester man ran to help and said he saw the vehicle trying to back away from the tree. He said he drew his gun and ordered the car to stop. Winters said the man has a valid permit to carry a weapon. Police arrived and ordered the man to put down his gun. The man was taken into custody. Winters said both men could face charges.

A 19-year-old Rochester man also is in custody and could face charges of committing a crime for the benefit of a gang. Police received an anonymous tip about an incident involving a weapon Friday night in the vicinity of the skate park near Silver Lake pool. Police approached and found three people in gang attire. They were stopped. One person refused to comply with orders to make his hands visible. That person was frisked by officers, who found a loaded .22-caliber handgun in the waistband of his pants. Winters declined to say what they told them.

Thanks for the info, Dismal.

http://www.postbulletin.com/newsmanager ... 2&a=350764

The permit holder has been charged with a Gross Misdemeanor. Had 3-4 beers in his system...which probably put him over the .04 BAC limit. Combined with a few other negatives in this case, the guy just lost my support...sad day for all of us. The anti's will have a field day , but the main supporting argument for us is that the law worked and the individual will be held accountable. If alcohol wouldn't have been a factor I think he may have had a fair chance at a positive outcome. But the alcohol limit was probably surpassed and the "impaired judgement" thing will be an issue. My $.02...

The permit does not convey police authority. Let the car go. Get the license number. Give the tree first aid. Caution others to stay away from the car and to stay out of any danger. What would have been best is that he just stayed put and watched the show unfold without becoming a participant at any level.

Drinking? Leave the gun unloaded and at home.

He put the gun into his waistband? Possibly he had some salsa with that beer and believed that permitted Mexican carry.

This is just so wrong.

Any instructor out there willing to claim this bloke?

No, as a matter of fact, it wouldn't, and I wish you wouldn't have thrown him under the bus on the PB web site.

Three beers in two and a half hours for a 205-lb man would put Mr. Rose at .01 to .03, depending on which online calculator you believe, well under the legal limit for carry.

http://www.ou.edu/oupd/bac.htm
http://www.intox.com/wheel/drinkwheel.asp
http://www.friendsdrivesober.org/alcoho ... g/bac.html
http://bloodalcoholcalculator.org/
http://www.onlineconversion.com/bac.htm

How `bout posting a correction, Wamps??

Mr. Rose's biggest mistake was not saying "I need to talk to my attorney, and I don't consent to any search."