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 MN: Man pulls a gun on errant driver at Silver Lake playgrou 
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:55 pm 
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BUT again like i said we can all say what we would've done.


I, for one, have visions of myself intervening in this situation such as Joe Pesci in Goodfellas as he fired his handgun wrapped in the paper bag out the window of the truck.

:wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:27 pm 
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I think there are probably two different angles of thought that are kinda being merged which is unfortunate because they are completely different.

1) What he SHOULD have done
2) What the courts will decide about we he DID do.

Regarding #2:
He said he thought someone was hit and the car was going to drive through a crowd of people and intentionally kill more. If that's the case, and depend on his lawyer, he might be able to convince a jury he met all 4 criteria.

But damn, it's a grey area and I sure wouldn't want to be in his situation. He might be able to get off on this one, if he can make that story stick. The proximity of his family would be a factor. And if they can find another witness who will cry on the witness stand and claim they feared for their life, that would help.

Regarding #1:
Here I think everyone is going to have a differently opinion. And clearly that's the case!

Personally if he was so concerned about the person that he thought was hit I think checking their status should have been #1. And he probably would have noticed said victim did not exist. He ran over to the car before drawing his weapon so I would think he could have verified that.

At that point, being a good witness would have been the obvious (or so I would hope) choice.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:54 pm 
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TeamSpringFieldXD wrote:
How did the permit holder know the guy was drunk? He could've had medical problems (seizure behind the wheel, heart attack) there a millions of reasons not to draw your weapon but a couple reasons too.


That's why we have a "reasonable person" test, not an "x-ray vision test" in the law.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:09 pm 
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I am sure that someone will point out that one person with a handgun confronted the driver and XXXX persons moved out of the way and observed. Which set of actions will be perceived as being "reasonable"?

I fear for this fellow. Any one of us could be in his position.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:24 pm 
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Traveler wrote:
I am sure that someone will point out that one person with a handgun confronted the driver and XXXX persons moved out of the way and observed. Which set of actions will be perceived as being "reasonable"?

I fear for this fellow. Any one of us could be in his position.


Now, if the guy would have been right, and a kid was under the car, would the perception of his actions change?

It doesn't take long for a car to fly out of nowhere and land in the trees. It would be easy to mistake a towel, or reflected sunlight for a kid under the car, in the split second he had to notice everything.

The way it is, he's in for an expensive ride.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:06 pm 
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Now, if the guy would have been right, and a kid was under the car, would the perception of his actions change?


Yes, I am sure perceptions would have been different. The headline probably would have gone something like this: DRINKING MAN WITH GUN FAILS TO PROTECT INNOCENT CHILD.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:48 pm 
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Traveler wrote:
Quote:
Now, if the guy would have been right, and a kid was under the car, would the perception of his actions change?


Yes, I am sure perceptions would have been different. The headline probably would have gone something like this: DRINKING MAN WITH GUN FAILS TO PROTECT INNOCENT CHILD.


+1 :lol: ...ain't that the truth!

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 Post subject: UPDATE
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:29 am 
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This was recently in the PB down here. There is still no case filled against Mr. Rose.
Post-Bulletin, Rochester MN

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A Rochester man has pleaded not guilty to a reckless driving charge stemming from a Fourth of July accident near Silver Lake that also led to charges against another man accused of pulling a gun.

Near F. Kouath, 24, pleaded not guilty Tuesday. A trial was set for Aug. 29.

Kouath also denied violating probation in another case. He had pleaded guilty in June to misdemeanor charges of having an uninsured vehicle and driving without a valid license for the vehicle class and was put on probation for one year. He has requested a hearing; no date is set.

Kouath was charged with misdemeanor reckless driving following an accident on July 4 in an area where hundreds of people had gathered for the Post-Bulletin Charities fireworks display. He told police he was leaving the parking lot and thought he was going to be hit, lost control, went onto the boulevard and hit a telephone box. The vehicle crossed the sidewalk and hit a tree. He began to back up and said a man yelled at him and pointed a gun at him. Timothy Jay Rose has been charged with a gross misdemeanor in the case.

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 Post subject: Re: UPDATE
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:40 am 
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Joninroch wrote:
This was recently in the PB down here. There is still no case filled against Mr. Rose.
Post-Bulletin, Rochester MN

Quote:
A Rochester man has pleaded not guilty to a reckless driving charge stemming from a Fourth of July accident near Silver Lake that also led to charges against another man accused of pulling a gun.

Near F. Kouath, 24, pleaded not guilty Tuesday. A trial was set for Aug. 29.

Kouath also denied violating probation in another case. He had pleaded guilty in June to misdemeanor charges of having an uninsured vehicle and driving without a valid license for the vehicle class and was put on probation for one year. He has requested a hearing; no date is set.

Kouath was charged with misdemeanor reckless driving following an accident on July 4 in an area where hundreds of people had gathered for the Post-Bulletin Charities fireworks display. He told police he was leaving the parking lot and thought he was going to be hit, lost control, went onto the boulevard and hit a telephone box. The vehicle crossed the sidewalk and hit a tree. He began to back up and said a man yelled at him and pointed a gun at him. Timothy Jay Rose has been charged with a gross misdemeanor in the case.

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According to the MN Courts website, he is charged with a Gross.


Register Of ActionsCase No. 55-CR-08-6518State of Minnesota vs TIMOTHY JAY ROSE §
§
§
§
§
Case Type: Crim/Traf Mandatory
Date Filed: 07/07/2008
Location: Olmsted


Party Information Lead Attorneys
Defendant ROSE, TIMOTHY JAY
ROCHESTER, MN 55901
Male
08/12/1982 BAUER, ZACHARY CHAD

Retained

Jurisdiction State of Minnesota
SULLIVAN HOOK, KAREN ELIZABETH
Charge InformationCharges: ROSE, TIMOTHY JAY Statute Level Date
1. Dangerous Weapons-Intentionally Point a Gun 609.66.1(a)(2) Gross Misdemeanor 07/04/2008
Events & Orders of the Court OTHER EVENTS AND HEARINGS
07/07/2008 Application for Public Defender
07/07/2008 Bail Study
07/07/2008 Complaint-Order for Detention
07/07/2008 Interim Condition for ROSE, TIMOTHY JAY
- Complete booking
- Do not leave Minnesota without written court approval
- Keep court/attorney informed of current address
- No alcohol/controlled substance use
- No contact with victim(s)
- No possession of alcohol or drugs
- Released on own recognizance
- Remain law-abiding
- Make all future court appearances
- Make and maintain contact with attorney
- Do Not Enter Bars or Liquor Stores
- Sign Waiver of Extradition
- No use or possession of firearms or dangerous weapons

07/07/2008 First Appearance (10:30 AM) (Judicial Officer Chase, Joseph F.) Result: Held
07/07/2008 Notice-Probable Cause Found to Detain
07/07/2008 Order Denying Public Defender
07/07/2008 Waiver
07/10/2008 Discovery Disclosure
07/10/2008 Notice of Evidence and Identification Procedures
07/10/2008 Request for Disclosure
07/10/2008 Witness List
07/16/2008 Affidavit of Service
07/16/2008 Affidavit of Service
07/16/2008 Certificate of Representation
07/16/2008 Probable Cause Found to Detain
07/16/2008 Request for Disclosure
08/01/2008 Witness List
08/19/2008 CANCELED Omnibus Hearing (8:30 AM) (Judicial Officer Lund, Kevin A.)
Other

09/17/2008 Omnibus Hearing (1:30 PM) (Judicial Officer Birnbaum, Robert)


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:14 pm 
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OK what website did you find that on? All I found was traffic tickets and a minor consumption.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:19 pm 
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Could it be that one of you was searching conviction records and the other pending court cases? There would be a slight difference between the two. The distinction is admittedly very narrow. In most jurisdictions an arraignment is proof of guilt.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:09 pm 
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Joninroch wrote:
OK what website did you find that on? All I found was traffic tickets and a minor consumption.

Go here and search on Court Calendar: http://pa.courts.state.mn.us/default.aspx

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:16 am 
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Same website. Different search. Great and very good way to keep up on a case. I plan on being at the court house to follow it if they have it open to public. Should be VERY interesting and VERY educational.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:40 am 
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So, looks like the "omnibus hearing" is scheduled for the 17th. Is that when the actual case happens, or will it probably be sometime later? I'd like to go and see the case, but I'd also rather not waste too much time on procedural stuff...


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 Post subject: Omnibus hearing
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:01 am 
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it is a pretrial hearing. Would still be interesting to see what evidence, witnesses and testimonies they have.


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