This past Tuesday while having lunch with a client, my wife spotted a W/M, approx 40, med build, heavy set openly carrying a semi auto pistol at the Hazelwood restaurant off Hwy 19 in Excelsior. There was no badge or other marking indicating the gentleman was LEO and he had his back to the door while eating with 3 others.

I'll leave the open vs concealed carry debate to others, but the lesson to be learned here is that just because the 'sheep' don't outwardly give any indication that they noticed your openly carried gun, doesn't mean that someone hasn't spotted you. In this case it was one of the good
guys/gals.


Stay safe.

Well, I see another problem that he has......

Give the guy the benefit of the doubt: maybe everybody in his party was armed, and he was just the last guy to get to the table.

Everybody else can worry about everybody else.
Me, I worry about me, and that involves me seeing what is going on by taking the most advantageous position, as in with my back "not" to the door.
I'm sure James Butler Hickok would agree.

I have not tried open carry but I just might have to in the next few weeks. Very interesting discussion.

Thats my job - keep it interesting.

I live up the street from Hazelwood. Good spot to have lunch.

I had two thoughts on the present subject from a newby perspective and wondering if anyone would speak to them? First: even as someone who has now joined the CCW group, and has become a new believer in the right to keep and bear arms, I would have to admit that if I walk into a restaurant or a store and someone is standing/sitting there with an openly displayed gun, several thoughts run through my mind--none of them positive and both of them causing me to move on. 1) Is he a bad guy? How do I know? I think we can put people--even people who support us--in a bind when we ask them to make that decision without knowing anything about us. It can cause fear, and rightly so, in people who do notice. 2) Even if he is not a bad guy, is he one of these people who are so immature that they need a big steel penis to show off to everyone to prove how big and tough they are...if so, what kind of unstable idiocy might he pull while I and my loved ones are there? I don't think there is any question that alot of the people who are buying guns and getting their permits shouldn't have them...I don't know much about guns but I do know people and just reading the forums will give anyone with some common sense a real sense of trepidation at some of the postings. Second (and related): I would question whether the people who are recruited to CCW because they were impressed with someone carrying openly are the people we want representing us...because of the very concerns above in my first concern.
Now I have read some very intelligent and passionate defenses of open carry and I agree in principle with some of them...but in practice, in a state like Minnesota, I am not sure if theory is as good as reality. Just some thoughts from a newby to the whole world of guns.

I personally have my suspisions regarding your new found beliefs - I'm curious if you just discovered the 2nd, or as in the case of many liberals, you have been mugged and now see the light?


I would think that if it was a bad guy, you would not see the gun until it was pointed at you. Now if you are the mugged variety of beliver category, then one could maybe understand why you might think "bad guy" on seeing a gun. Are there other queues which signal BG to you, maybe skin color, clothing, body decorations or is it just the gun which gives you this queue? I personally try to take in more of the situation before making a decsion to flee. For example I rarely cover when I drive, if I stop for gas, I pump the gas while open carrying. Does the mental picture of me pumping gas with a gun set off sirens in you?


Ok, again - Is it just the gun? When I see someone open carrying I think COP. Your milage may very.


Ok my flags are really going off here, I'm really interested in how you came upon this new belief. Please do tell...


Ok, I'm starting to follow your lead in making assumptions and getting scared, an I'm thinking maybe you don't really believe your professed belief. What other actions cause you to think someone displaying a "large steel penis" is "unstable" and an "idot"


You speak liberal-ese very well! Do you realize that the folks with permits are some of the most lawabiding citizens. And that once you start carrying you have a very deep understanding of the responsibility you have undertaken? But one has to note that you have no right to be "trepidation" nor "fear" free. But there is a very basic right to protect oneself. I'll leave the argument regarding the constitutional right to another thread.


Are you under the impression that us permit holders are mearly wanna be cops? That we were "recruited" to carry so we could be tough guys like the cops and command respect? I don't know about others here, but this had nothing to do with my decision to secure my permit.



You are VERY good at this!


At least you are impressed with some of the intelligent discussion on this topic, is this because you couldn't see their guns.

One last note, I carry in a manner which best afords me to protect me and mine, sometimes that includes open carry - I don't carry so you can have a warm fussy. I'm truely sorry if you choose to be offended by the sight of my weapon, but it is your choice.

Mostly-

When I see someone open carrying I first think LEO in civies or off duty, then MPPA permit holder, bad guys hide it until they are ready to use it.

Really? I think of someone trying to show off, and willing to throw away the advantage of suprise to do so.

I know that responses like the one by "mostlylawabiding" shouldn't be dignified with a reply. Let me just say that I fought for my country in a war and have been a life-long conservative. Not that it should matter.
My main point--and let me try to make it really explicit for those who have below average IQ and don't get it, so no one else embarrasses himself like the above--is that it really doesn't matter what I think. It is not about my warm fuzzies. And it actually really doesn't matter what you think, the one making the decision to carry openly. What does matter far more is what the public thinks! Because (here's a shocker) we live in a country and a state where the majority of citizens' opinions will eventually carry the day. It is no secret to most that the legislatures and the courts have been reinterpreting and chipping away at our constitutional rights for a long time. This is most of all a political battle and a long term one at that. To win it, we have to win the hearts and minds of people. One way to ensure we lose--have the 16 year old mentality that "I don't give a damn what anyone else things, I am going to do whatever I want in your face." Oh, and here's another way to ensure we lose the long-term battle: let's insult and mock both those on our side and those who are neutral, so that gradually everyone realizes how offensive we are and enlists with the anti side. The point is that it is not just about you and me and my rights, it is about winning hearts and minds over. You generally don't do that by carrying a big steel penis around showing it off out of a raging inferiority complex. As I said, I have read very intelligent presentations of open carry and I agree with them in theory. But if open carry even makes me--a war veteran and a CCW permit holder--a little edgy, how do you think it makes most everyone in society feel? I have lived in Texas--it is a little different there. But this is Minnesota. Hope that helps explain what I am trying to say. Any thoughtful responses would be greatly appreciated! I want to learn as much as I can.

Thats about the bottom line I am afraid - like I said when I started this mess - that was an experiment

Do I think that open carry has a place - yes - under certain circmstances - but on the whole - I feel that it is perhaps something left alone

+1 (even the veteran part )

Regarding the original post by pinnacle...

I was in a Cub Foods in Crystal just a couple of weeks ago, not carrying openly but not very well-concealed either. My sweatshirt kept riding up, and exposing my sidearm. Anyway, within about 2 minutes of entering the store, my wife and I were being "shadowed" from a few steps away by one of the managers.

He didn't approach us, and he did not look fearful from what I could tell. He was simply watching us while ostensibly checking some product in a nearby freezer case.

Anyway, after we grabbed our ice cream, I turned to him, smiled, and said "Hey, how ya doin'?" He smiled back, and we didn't see him again until we were leaving the store. At that point, he was paying us no attention at all (from what I could tell).

I don't know if he saw my gun, or if someone else saw it and told him, but for me it was an interesting experience. I kept wondering if the police were about to show up and make my day

Nothing wrong with what he did.

Nothing wrong with what you did - I am not relaly one to tempt fate - as I said -i was just trying to see for myself what would happen if I were to open carry.

I am not so sure anyone even noticed. I look like your typical cop however - 6'1" 205# Short hair - so there is one thing.

Hats off to the manager that actually was paying attention to the people in his store - good powers of observation if you ask me.