Instructors teaching friends and relatives
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White Horseradish
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Post subject: Instructors teaching friends and relatives Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:36 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:52 pm Posts: 700 Location: Northeast Minneapolis
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This is a question for all the instructors here. Would you teach a permit course to a friend or family member? Why?
Also, suppose I am an instructor (I'm not, but let's pretend for the sake of this argument) and I put my wife through the course and issue her the certificate. Would the sheriff have a problem with that? Were she to be involved in a defensive shooting, would this be someting that could hurt her case in court?
Just wondering...
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phorvick
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Post subject: Re: Instructors teaching friends and relatives Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:46 pm |
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Forum Moderator |
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:37 pm Posts: 1571 Location: Detroit Lakes, MN
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White Horseradish wrote: This is a question for all the instructors here. Would you teach a permit course to a friend or family member? Why?
Also, suppose I am an instructor (I'm not, but let's pretend for the sake of this argument) and I put my wife through the course and issue her the certificate. Would the sheriff have a problem with that? Were she to be involved in a defensive shooting, would this be someting that could hurt her case in court?
Just wondering... Of course. If by the question you are really asking is if instructors take short cuts to just issue paper to friends or family, well...this one doesn't ... but they might get a better price!
_________________ Paul Horvick
http://shootingsafely.com
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Contact us to schedule a class for you and your friends, and check our website for more information http://shootingsafely.com
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White Horseradish
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Post subject: Re: Instructors teaching friends and relatives Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:56 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:52 pm Posts: 700 Location: Northeast Minneapolis
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phorvick wrote: Of course. If by the question you are really asking is if instructors take short cuts to just issue paper to friends or family, well...this one doesn't ... but they might get a better price! Oh, nothing like that.
My question isn't really about actually taking shortcuts, but rather about others (sheriff, court) assuming that you did when in fact you did not. How would you defend yourself from such an accusation?
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phorvick
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Post subject: Re: Instructors teaching friends and relatives Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:09 pm |
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Forum Moderator |
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:37 pm Posts: 1571 Location: Detroit Lakes, MN
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White Horseradish wrote: phorvick wrote: Of course. If by the question you are really asking is if instructors take short cuts to just issue paper to friends or family, well...this one doesn't ... but they might get a better price! Oh, nothing like that. My question isn't really about actually taking shortcuts, but rather about others (sheriff, court) assuming that you did when in fact you did not. How would you defend yourself from such an accusation? With a very big and expensive lawsuit. I would be able to retire from the judgment I would obtain. It just is not an issue to worry about.
Edited here:
Of course, this assumes that the instuctor is in fact ethical etc. Clearly if shortcuts are taken to avoid the instructional standards, that will be, as they say, a different fact.
And, edited again.
Also, whether it is awkward to teach friends and/or family really would depend on the relationships that exist between the people. I suspect many family/friend students would be no problem, but that there may be some that prefer to have someone other than the spouse/friend/sibling etc. be the teacher or the student.
_________________ Paul Horvick
http://shootingsafely.com
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Contact us to schedule a class for you and your friends, and check our website for more information http://shootingsafely.com
Last edited by phorvick on Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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White Horseradish
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Post subject: Re: Instructors teaching friends and relatives Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:14 pm |
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Longtime Regular |
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:52 pm Posts: 700 Location: Northeast Minneapolis
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phorvick wrote: White Horseradish wrote: phorvick wrote: Of course. If by the question you are really asking is if instructors take short cuts to just issue paper to friends or family, well...this one doesn't ... but they might get a better price! Oh, nothing like that. My question isn't really about actually taking shortcuts, but rather about others (sheriff, court) assuming that you did when in fact you did not. How would you defend yourself from such an accusation? With a very big and expensive lawsuit. I would be able to retire from the judgment I would obtain. It just is not an issue to worry about. Oooh. I wanna retire, too. I'm taking notes.
1. Become an instructor
2. teach friend
...
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vfrdirk
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:59 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:01 am Posts: 200
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All of the students I taught were friends or coworkers. Since I didn't advertise and didn't actively pursue students all of the courses were created by word of mouth around the office, etc. As soon as I had about 5 students lined up, we got together and went over the curriculum, discussing the salient points and hitting all the required topics, which took about 4 hours with all their questions. Then, a quick trip to the range for some recreational shooting and a brief "exercise" for the permit. Everyone got "The Book" (and a good deal on the course) and was encouraged to read the book thoroughly and contact me with any questions.
If there was any doubt raised about the course after a shooting, I'd just call up all the people that were in the class (or walk over to their cubicle) and ask them to testify as to the content and quality...
Dirk
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ttousi
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:52 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:20 am Posts: 3311 Location: St. Paul, MN.
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Had 2 brothers and 1 Bro in law way back when in one of my first classes. No special treatment at all. Since I have a partner he actually signed their certificates.
Neither one of us take shortcuts......if any thing we are just the opposite. His wife took one of our classes awhile back......Just like any other student. Yup you guessed it....I signed her certificate.
Long and the short of it ......be careful with relatives, to me, it's an automatic red flag.
_________________ http://is.gd/37LKr
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goalie
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:14 pm |
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:48 pm Posts: 429 Location: Minnetonka
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A smart man doesn't teach his wife how to golf or how to shoot. As for friends, my experience has been that it's a coin toss. I've never had a problem with co-workers.
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cobb
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:53 pm |
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1911 tainted |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:47 pm Posts: 3045
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Nothing special as far as training goes. The brother, brother-in-law, and friends all go through my regularly scheduled classes with other students that I may have not met until that day. So when my brother went through, he brought a friend and they sat in with the other dozen or so regular students in the class.
I never thought of it before, but I could see some of the skeptics that would think maybe family or friends got something special if you did a class for them only.
My daughter is on the verge of turning 21, and the same with her, and in fact I would prefer it, that she go through a class with other regular students. Questions and problem situations come up in class that I think is all the better that she gets to hear, discuss and get maybe some answers to, that she might not get in a "special" class. Now I am not saying that she wouldn't get extra special attention, that should be a given without saying.
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dcwn.45
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:00 pm |
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Senior Member |
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Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:42 pm Posts: 270 Location: Waconia,Mn.
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The hardest I have ever been on a student would have to be my brother! He is a couple years younger than me and I wanted him to be as solid and educated as possible.
_________________ David ,Molon Labe!
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." --Col. Jeff Cooper
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DonL
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:31 am |
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:10 am Posts: 324 Location: Mpls MN
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I've had a couple of relatives and friends go thru my class. They attended the regularly scheduled class with others, and no special treatment. I have had some folks who went thru my class send their kids to me for basic pistol instruction, figuring that they would listen to me more than to their parent.
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ttousi
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:25 pm |
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Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:20 am Posts: 3311 Location: St. Paul, MN.
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My 24 yr old niece ran the powerpoint for me in the last class. She has an interest and wants to learn how to shoot. Noticed her taking notes as well as pushing the buttons. I jokingly told the class I was going to make her sit thru 18 classes be fore giving her a certificate.
I guarantee you she will receive many more hours of instruction than the average student before I will issue her a certificate. She has also attended one of my "women-only" classes.
I think most instructors are probably harder on kinfolk just because of the potential problems.
.02 (again)
_________________ http://is.gd/37LKr
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