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 Pennsylvania Wants To Plug "Loophole" 
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 Post subject: Pennsylvania Wants To Plug "Loophole"
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:53 pm 
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One more assault attempt on reciprocity. Possibly, just possibly, it should be mandatory that a carry permit from one juristiction should be honored throughout the nation, including that pesky little after-thought add-on, Hawaii and that never-never-land of the District of Columbia. :lol:

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20100811_Gun-advocates_up_in_arms_over_concealed-carry_hearings.html

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Gun-advocates up in arms over concealed-carry hearings

By STEPHANIE FARR
Philadelphia Daily News

The audience was armed - literally - at a House Judiciary Committee hearing in Upper Darby yesterday to examine a loophole in the state's concealed-weapons laws. From short, pudgy, middle-aged men to young, slim ones, gun-rights advocates came packing heat to the hearing about what's become known as the "Florida loophole."

Under Pennsylvania's firearms-reciprocity agreements, the state must recognize "concealed-carry" licenses from certain other states, and vice versa.

The "loophole" is that three of those states - Florida, Utah and New Hampshire - allow out-of state residents to get licenses in their state and through the mail, even if their state has denied them a license or revoked it.

Of the three states, police say that Florida is the biggest problem - it has issued more than 3,100 out-of-state permits to Pennsylvania residents. That number is up from 2,600, when the Daily News first wrote about the issue in February.

In her testimony, Lt. Lisa King, commander of the Philadelphia Police gun-permit unit, said that there is no way to tell if those 3,100 have been denied a permit in Pennsylvania because Florida will not provide police with their names.

"I fundamentally have a problem, that Pennsylvania allows another state to dictate who can carry a concealed-carry permit here and not tell us the names," said state Rep. Josh Shapiro, D-Montgomery. "Whether you're in the NRA or CeaseFire PA . . . we would all be better suited having Pennsylvania laws govern [here]."

State Rep. Bryan Lentz, D-Delaware, who sponsored a bill that would close the loophole, said that the Florida license is basically a "get-out-of-jail-free card."

But gun-rights advocates said that the loophole is necessary because the permit application process, especially in Philadelphia, is too strict.

Brian Grady, Philadelphia deputy district attorney for special operations, noted that 90 percent of concealed-carry applications in the city were approved last year.

"We're talking about giving you a deadly weapon," Grady said. "We're not talking about giving you a Schwinn to ride around the parking lot."

The crux of yesterday's four-hour hearing rested on the fact that, in Pennsylvania, one can be denied a concealed-carry license based on "character and reputation" alone. Therefore, someone with a dozen arrests but no convictions or someone who associates with criminals can be denied, even if they've never been convicted of a crime.

Kim Stolfer, legislative committee chairman for the Allegheny County Sportsman's League, said that the character and reputation clause is "the elimination of the presumption of the right of innocence."

"We will never, ever agree to deny someone a freedom based on an arrest alone," he said.

Stolfer said he'd like to see the character clause eliminated and for character references to be required.

Judah Kocher, 24, of Cochranville, Chester County, who attended the hearing with his wife, his sister and his Springfield Armory XD 45-caliber gun on his hip, said, "I don't want it to be harder; I want it to be easier to protect yourself."


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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Wants To Plug "Loophole"
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:06 pm 
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Odd that this would be in Pennsylvania. It's also one of the states that issues out-of-state permits via the mail.

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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Wants To Plug "Loophole"
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:03 pm 
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chunkstyle wrote:
Odd that this would be in Pennsylvania. It's also one of the states that issues out-of-state permits via the mail.


Not after 2010. In 2011 you will need to apply in person.


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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Wants To Plug "Loophole"
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:25 am 
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Traveler wrote:
chunkstyle wrote:
Odd that this would be in Pennsylvania. It's also one of the states that issues out-of-state permits via the mail.


Not after 2010. In 2011 you will need to apply in person.
That's bad. Cite?

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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Wants To Plug "Loophole"
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:07 am 
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Traveler wrote:
chunkstyle wrote:
Odd that this would be in Pennsylvania. It's also one of the states that issues out-of-state permits via the mail.


Not after 2010. In 2011 you will need to apply in person.


I missed that change - when did that happen?
b

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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Wants To Plug "Loophole"
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:34 pm 
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I may, in fact, be wrong, but that is what I was told by a Minnesota instructor. I will fine a cite if their is one.


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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Wants To Plug "Loophole"
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:46 pm 
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Traveler wrote:
I may, in fact, be wrong, but that is what I was told by a Minnesota instructor. I will fine a cite if their is one.
Please. And please let me know who the instructor is; I'd like to congratulate him or her for this contribution to the community.

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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Wants To Plug "Loophole"
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:03 pm 
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Centre County, PA Sheriff's Office still states that you can mail in your out of state application

http://www.co.centre.pa.us/sheriff/lice ... cation.asp

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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Wants To Plug "Loophole"
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:35 pm 
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good god man dont scare me without haveing hard facts first :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Wants To Plug "Loophole"
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:52 pm 
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joelr wrote:
Please. And please let me know who the instructor is; I'd like to congratulate him or her for this contribution to the community.


Sleeping dogs, Joel. Sleeping dogs. I am checking, but I readily admit I may be wrong, however my hearing is excellent, so …


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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Wants To Plug "Loophole"
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:56 am 
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I do remember hearing the same, I'll see if I can find anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Wants To Plug "Loophole"
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:59 am 
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Please. If it's true -- and the Centre sheriff's office says that they haven't heard about it; I just called -- it's pretty important.

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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Wants To Plug "Loophole"
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:02 am 
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http://www.centredaily.com/2010/02/07/1 ... z0f3aXDn7p

Permit law changes could cost county
Anne Danahy
February 7, 2010 1:27pm EST

When someone asks Ken Hanson with the Buckeye Firearms Association where to go for a Pennsylvania firearms license, he points them to the Centre County Sheriff’s Office.

“I know from experience that Centre County has a professional operation and gets the license turned around,” said Hanson, legislative chairman of the Ohio group.

The reputation draws thousands of out-of-state applications for licenses to carry concealed firearms into Centre County each year — and thousands of dollars in revenue for the county. But that money will likely dry up in 2011 when a state law aimed at standardizing and modernizing Pennsylvania’s licensing takes effect.

According to the Pennsylvania Commission on Crime and Delinquency, one change will be that gun owners applying for Pennsylvania licenses to carry will have to appear in person to have a photo license created and sign for it. The commission is implementing the system, under the 2005 law, with state police and the Pennsylvania Sheriffs’ Association.

While some counties already issue licenses with photos or require in-person applications, Centre County doesn’t. Sheriff Denny Nau said the county processed about 9,900 licenses to carry last year, more than half of them from out of state. Nau said the new system will be nicer and easier, but it will probably mean a huge drop in the number of licenses his office processes and the money that it brings in. At $26 a license, with $20 of that going to the county, processing those out-of-state applications brought in almost $100,000 a year.

“We didn’t start this as a revenue (generator) because we never thought it was going to be like this,” Nau said. Centre County’s status as a magnet for out-of-state applications apparently had its start in 2004, because of changes in concealed weapons permitting in Missouri.

The commonwealth has reciprocity agreements with 17 states that recognize Pennsylvania licenses to carry a concealed gun. At that time, Missouri’s permitting was caught up in legal wrangling and the state temporarily stopped issuing permits.

Missourians began to turn to Pennsylvania for weapons permits that would be recognized in the Show Me State. Nau said that his office got a phone call from a Missourian inquiring about getting a license, and that information ended up being posted on the World Wide Web. And things snowballed.

“Centre County got hundreds of requests,” Nau said.

Even though things have changed in Missouri, the requests are still coming.

Jim Bonner, of Sidney, N.Y., wanted to get a license to carry that would be recognized in Georgia, where his brother has a farm that is being plagued with wild hogs.

“They’re very vicious and very big, and it’s nice to have a handgun in case something goes wrong,” he said.

Bonner said he has a New York license but, unlike Pennsylvania, New York does not have reciprocal agreements with other states. He was advised to obtain a Pennsylvania license, and when he did an Internet search, Centre County popped up.

He printed the application, filled it out and mailed it to Nau’s office with a copy of his concealed weapon permit from New York, a copy of his driver’s license and a $26 check.

“It was actually fairly simple,” he said.

Under the new state law, counties will have to have systems — including photo machines, driver’s license swipers and electronic signature pads — that meet the state requirements in place by the end of March 2011.

Pike County Sheriff Philip Bueki said while some counties already issue permit cards with photographs, most of those systems won’t meet the state regulations that are being implemented. Bueki is the Pennsylvania Sheriffs’ Association representative on the advisory committee that is helping the state implement the new system.

He said the changes are a question of safety and security. That means presenting an identification in person. Out-of-state mail-in applications, he said, are “going to come to a screeching halt.”

When an applicant does show up in person at a county sheriff’s office, his or her driver’s license will be swiped and the information automatically transferred into the system. That will be submitted to state police for a background check.

“I think it’s a great move,” Bueki said. “I think we have a couple of concerns with it. When anything new comes out, it gets confusing. A lot of people are resistant to change. But I think as serious as carrying a permit is, it should be uniform throughout the state.”

The fee that counties charge to process each license includes $5 that has been going to a state fund set up specifically to help counties pay for the change. Centre County and others have been applying for $15,000 noncompetitive grants to pay for the needed equipment.

Bueki said one of the concerns is how counties will pay for equipment upgrades or repairs in the future, after the $5 fee and the $1 million in funding it was meant to create is gone.

“It’s nice to implement it. We raised over a million dollars to do it, but counties are having a tough time now,” he said. “It’s not fair to ask them to shell out the money (for future equipment). It’s a state mandate.”

Nau said he would like the state to let counties keep the $5 fee in place.

“We could send that money to the county, to help pay for equipment down the road,” he said.

Anne Danahy can be reached at 231-4648.

Read more: http://www.centredaily.com/2010/02/07/1 ... z0wmGYO893




http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/leg ... 17&pn=2918


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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Wants To Plug "Loophole"
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:21 am 
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Interesting. We'll have to see how the Centre County SO inteprets the law, as of next March.

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 Post subject: Re: Pennsylvania Wants To Plug "Loophole"
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:57 am 
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Thank you Dismal.

While I am not exactly exonerated, I have had occasion to cancel my appointment for a hearing check. :roll:


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