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 Looking to get into reloading 
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 Post subject: Looking to get into reloading
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:23 am 
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I am wanting to shoot more then I currently have been. I have a 40 S & W. What is the expected cost to start up and once it is going what should the expected savings and how long will it take to pay for the inital investment. Also looking for types of presses should be going for and where are the manuals for new people who dont know anything starting out. Any responce would be apprecated.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:53 am 
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If you are going to reload mainly pistol, then start off with a progressive press and find someone on here to help you set it up and teach you the basics.

I personally love my Dillon 550B, but, if I was to only reload pistol I would have gone with the Dillon 650. You are looking at around 300-400 to get everything if you go with a progressive press, less if you with a single-stage.

As for savings, I reload 9mm for under 70 bucks a thousand. That's cheaper than Blazer aluminum cased ammo, and it's cleaner and more accurate to boot.

I don't know how much you shoot, or how much you'll "save," because most people end up spending the same and shooting 40% more than they used to.

:D


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:46 am 
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By reloading, you will produce ammo for less than it's sold for in stores.
But you may or may not save any money! You will at least shoot more for the same money, and will likely recoup your initial startup costs.

I reload on the cheap, really, really, cheap.
My costs per box of 50 rounds is about $2. But I cast my own bullets.

I'm currently using a Lee 4 hole turret press, but I'm soon ready to move up to a progressive press.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:54 am 
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I have made the offer - I have 2 Dillon 650's and 3 Other presses that we can use to teach with - you want to learn to reload - give me a call -

Feel free to ask questions - LOTS Of them - and there is no charge for dumb looks and snide remarks..... :?

If you buy a progressive press - spend the coin and get a dillon - you cannot find a more reliable piece of machinery - I have basically used them all and found that they are certainly worth more than the relatively high price tag.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:59 am 
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So, Goalie's numbers give us $70/1000 = $0.07 per round.
Winchester White Box at Wally world is $12 for 100 9mm target rounds
Assuming $400 in initial investment, the break even point is:

$0.12-$0.07 = $0.05 savings per round. $400.00/$0.05 = 8000 rounds to break even.

Brewman doesn't state caliber but let's asusme 9mm for the sake of comparison. $2.00/50 = $0.04 per round.
$0.12-$0.04 - $0.08 savings per round. $400 / $0.05 - 2500 rounds to break even.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:41 am 
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I reload .45acp, .40S&W, and .38spl/.357 mag.


Blazer ammo costs maybe $9 per box, more or less. I figure my savings per box at about $6 give or take.

For every 100 boxes of Blazer I don't buy I'm $600 ahead. I figure my startup costs were less than $400. So it didn't take too long to recoup my investment in dies, press, melter, molds, etc....

Plus it's just plain fun. I could justify it on the enjoyment factor alone.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:50 am 
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Brewman wrote:
Blazer ammo costs maybe $9 per box, more or less.


If you can find it. I haven't seen any around locally lately. So you'd have to add in shipping charges.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:14 am 
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Let's see, I got started up lots cheaper than that, I do more work to get the finished ammo, but my break-even point came sooner.

I bought a Lee Classic singles stage press, for $60
I found an RCBS "Ammocrafter" set (thrower, scale, lube pad, deburring tool, funnel, primer tray) used at a gun show, $40
Dies were about $20 a set
Bullet puller, maybe $17
Lee primer pocket cleaner, about $2
Some nice plastic boxes, $20 or so.
I already had a caliper.

So, about $180 for capital expenses, for the 2 calibers I load, .30 tokarev and .40

Powder runs about $18 a pound, I get 800-1000 rounds per, say 2 cents each.
Primers, about the same.

Brass is mostly range pick-up (free), especially the .30 Tok, since it's much harder to find. I find cleaning to be largely unneeded, most dirt can just be wiped off.

Bullets are widely variable, but commercially cast lead is usually less than 4 cents a round (I don't cast, myself), plateds about 7 cents, FMJs anywhere from 7 cents for cheap Magtechs up to 14 for Sierras.

So, all told, I get good quality target .40 for $4-7 a box, the Tok can be a bit more, up to $9 a box. Say my savings works out to $3 a box. 60 boxes, or 3000 rounds pays my capital expenses, and thereafter, I'm shooting cheap.

I go to bars much less when reloading in a given winter, too, so I save on the bar tab, as well! :wink:


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 Post subject: more math
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:15 am 
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Brewman confirms .45, .40 S&W, and .38spl/.357. Assuming $10/50 = $0.20 per round. At between $2 and $3 a box his cost (call it $2.50) he's at $0.05 per round.
$0.20-$0.05 = $0.15 savings per round. $400/$0.15 = 2667 rounds to break even.

Let's make this interesting...
Say you shoot 50 rounds a week now bought at the store(2600 a year).
in 9mm WWB that would cost you $12 per 100 = $6 a week
in .45/.40SW/.38spl/.357 that would cost you ~$10 per 50 = $10 a week

For $6 a week which Goalie would have spent on WWB ammo, he can now shoot 85 rounds or shoot 50 reloaded rounds for $3.50.
For $10 a week which Brewman would have spent on misc ammo, he can now shoot 200 rounds or shoot 50 reloaded rounds for $2.50.

Goalie's 9mm store ammo = $312/year. Reloaded, it's $182/year. That's a savings of $130 a year or 1857 more rounds to shoot :-) (1.7 times the bang for the buck!)

Brewman's misc store ammo = $520/year. Reloaded, it's $130/year. That's a savings of $390 a year. or 7,800 more rounds to shoot:-) (4* the bang for the buck!)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:00 pm 
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Ok

Give it a rest - Its cheaper in $$$$$$$$ To reload - all that is left is time.

Capital Ependature on equipment is nill compared to the long term savings and just think of all the time you will be spending with those new toys.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:30 pm 
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sorry for the over analysis. I like to see the numbers. I like to see how long it will take to pay out at different rates. I'll bet you'd believe my original run at the numbers included range rental and number of rounds too. I live on a budget as we all seem to, so ANY expenditure needs to be thought out (he says , having impulse bought a Taurus 85 ultralight last week :-))


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:51 pm 
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You're right Andy, it's cheaper. It does come down to time. If I applied what I could make hourly, it would be cheaper to just by the stuff. But, the time I spent with my sons and my friend discussing, strategizing, and the actual re-loading was priceless on my first re-load project ever.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:59 pm 
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Is Blazer really hard to find locally? I've not looked for it lately.
In the few times I've wanted some, I picked it up at Fleet Farm in Lakeville. Both .45 and .40 were in stock. I think their next step up is another brand (Federal? Has an eagle on the red box- several dollars more than Blazer).


As far as adding in my time, I don't since my time spent reloading is not cutting into time I'd otherwise be making money. I'm paid a salary at work, don't get hourly pay or overtime, nor do I work overtime.

My reloading time cuts into my TV watching time or some other really non productive activity.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:24 pm 
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DeanC wrote:
You're right Andy, it's cheaper. It does come down to time. If I applied what I could make hourly, it would be cheaper to just by the stuff. But, the time I spent with my sons and my friend discussing, strategizing, and the actual re-loading was priceless on my first re-load project ever.


And that is the thing

We do a thing every tuesday night - all [well most] of the local gun guys get together and talk up a storm about projects nad it is more fun than you should have and the time spent with the people involved is priceless.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:27 pm 
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I spent about $800 on my setup (Dillon SDB in .45 ACP, tumbler, digital scale, caliper, additional 10mm die set).

Payback, defined as the number of cases that need to be reloaded to pay off the cost of the equipment through savings and the "saved against" ammo. I have a spreadsheet I put together to solve this question, it uses prices from Midway (excluding shipping) and takes into account "case loss" from either disappearing into the far reaches of the range or eventual damage. The components I selected are for "equal type" ammo. If the factory stuff is 230gr FMJ, that's what I used for component pricing.

45 ACP:
17.2 cases (Blazer Brass)
16.2 case (Blazer AL)

10mm:
6.5 cases (Blazer AL)
4.2 cases (Federal American Eagle)

I don't load 40S&W, but the Midway prices are a reasonable cost basis for my spreadsheet:

40S&W:
11.6 cases (Blazer and Blazer Brass)

It really helps to load expensive-ammo calibers. Common ammo has a very long payback period. 16 cases of 45 would mean 6 boxes a week every week for a whole year. That's a lot of shooting and would still cost you $900 in supplies.

You can cut corners further by using non-jacketed bullets, but don't be mislead into savings because someone compares factory Hornady XTPs with Joe-Bob's cast lead. I"m not saying there's anything wrong with shooting lead or buying range sweeping for cases, they're legitimate money savers, but it's not an apples-apples comparison.

Buy Dillon equipment; if you only plan to shoot pistol calibers, get a Square Deal B. Even if you decide you want something that can do rifle, you can easily sell a SDB to someone else. IMHO this is one of those hobbies that pays for itself, but unless you have a ton of time on your hands, getting a non-autoindexing progressive press means you will spend a LOT Of time to turn out any reasonable quanitty of ammo.

Don't BS around with cutting corners on cost (ie, non-digital scale). You will only get frustrated and waste time.

I encourage you to go see John Walton at the Gunstop.


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