Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive :: View topic

mobocracy wrote:

I'm worried that the 16" barrel might put a damper on performance past 250 yards or so.

1911fan wrote:

Well i routinely get 3850 FPS with a 42 gr load of H380 and a 55 gr Speer.

Quote:

Otherwise I am both embarrassed and impressed at the same time with 1911fan's 5.56 x 45mm load.

Quote:

Otherwise I am both embarrassed and impressed at the same time with 1911fan's .223 Remington load.

ttousi wrote:

Quote:

Otherwise I am both embarrassed and impressed at the same time with 1911fan's 5.56 x 45mm load.

Quote:

Otherwise I am both embarrassed and impressed at the same time with 1911fan's .223 Remington load.

Well which one is it?

cobb wrote:

ttousi wrote:

Quote:

Otherwise I am both embarrassed and impressed at the same time with 1911fan's 5.56 x 45mm load.

Quote:

Otherwise I am both embarrassed and impressed at the same time with 1911fan's .223 Remington load.

Well which one is it?

You should be embarrassed to ask such a question.
The forum has some delay in posting and I got another post that gave me a notch in my belt, so what??

Not a joke or an in your face, but there MAY BE some info that there is a problem with and could cause a dangerous situation,,,,,,what else should I say! Experienced reload's will recognize this, but the danger is to the beginners that do the "monkey see, monkey do" and hurt themselves.

Again, I am maybe over cautious, but so be it.........................

ttousi wrote:

cobb wrote:

ttousi wrote:

Quote:

Otherwise I am both embarrassed and impressed at the same time with 1911fan's 5.56 x 45mm load.

Quote:

Otherwise I am both embarrassed and impressed at the same time with 1911fan's .223 Remington load.

Well which one is it?

I'm not at all embarrassed to ask the question cause I was truly confused in the difference in terminology in the two posts.........especially since that was the 1st reference to "Remington" (I may have missed it)
While they may be the same exact load you are referring to, I am not certain, so therefore the question.

Quote:

Military brass may have a thicker case wall, therefore a smaller inside volume which can cause higher pressure if the same exact load data is used as the commercial brass.

hammAR wrote:

More info and good read on differences here:

http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm

.

ttousi wrote:

Quote:

Military brass may have a thicker case wall, therefore a smaller inside volume which can cause higher pressure if the same exact load data is used as the commercial brass.

That I didn't know. Subtle difference that could make for a problem.

See, I did learn something :wink:

farmerj wrote:

That is also why you cannot shoot .223 in a 5.56 Nato chamber and the same deal with a 7.62/.308 set-up. Headspace changes also.

farmerj wrote:

That is also why you cannot shoot .223 in a 5.56 Nato chamber and the same deal with a 7.62/.308 set-up. Headspace changes also.

KonaSeven wrote:

farmerj wrote:

That is also why you cannot shoot .223 in a 5.56 Nato chamber and the same deal with a 7.62/.308 set-up. Headspace changes also.

It is the other way around. 5.56 in a .223Rem chamber is a bad idea. There is a significant difference in the Leade. However your point is well taken.

ETA: Sorry hammAR didn't mean to dupe your post. Yours must have posted while I was reading/replying. :oops:

farmerj wrote:

The NATO have a high pressure spec. Good reason not to put NATO ammo in a SAAMI spec gun.

The NATO have a longer headspace. Good reason not to put SAAMI spec into a NATO spec gun.

farmerj wrote:

The NATO have a high pressure spec. Good reason not to put NATO ammo in a SAAMI spec gun.

The NATO have a longer headspace. Good reason not to put SAAMI spec into a NATO spec gun.

Author:	farmerj [ Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:
mobocracy wrote: I'm worried that the 16" barrel might put a damper on performance past 250 yards or so. I wouldn't worry about it. We would use the M4 out to 600 yards with good accuracy all day long. It's only a 14.5" barrel. Not sure why people are concerned about recoil with this rifle either. But then again, I shoot .30 cal M14's most of the time too.

Author:	cobb [ Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:
1911fan wrote: Well i routinely get 3850 FPS with a 42 gr load of H380 and a 55 gr Speer. I say this because most of this thread has been about a .223 Remington or 5.56 x 45mm. Maybe we should make clear what cartridge we are giving load info for. Otherwise I am both embarrassed and impressed at the same time with 1911fan's .223 Remington load.

Author:	ttousi [ Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Otherwise I am both embarrassed and impressed at the same time with 1911fan's 5.56 x 45mm load. Quote: Otherwise I am both embarrassed and impressed at the same time with 1911fan's .223 Remington load. Well which one is it?

Author:	cobb [ Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:14 pm ]
Post subject:
ttousi wrote: Quote: Otherwise I am both embarrassed and impressed at the same time with 1911fan's 5.56 x 45mm load. Quote: Otherwise I am both embarrassed and impressed at the same time with 1911fan's .223 Remington load. Well which one is it? You should be embarrassed to ask such a question. The forum has some delay in posting and I got another post that gave me a notch in my belt, so what?? Not a joke or an in your face, but there MAY BE some info that there is a problem with and could cause a dangerous situation,,,,,,what else should I say! Experienced reload's will recognize this, but the danger is to the beginners that do the "monkey see, monkey do" and hurt themselves. Again, I am maybe over cautious, but so be it.........................

Author:	ttousi [ Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:
cobb wrote: ttousi wrote: Quote: Otherwise I am both embarrassed and impressed at the same time with 1911fan's 5.56 x 45mm load. Quote: Otherwise I am both embarrassed and impressed at the same time with 1911fan's .223 Remington load. Well which one is it? You should be embarrassed to ask such a question. The forum has some delay in posting and I got another post that gave me a notch in my belt, so what?? Not a joke or an in your face, but there MAY BE some info that there is a problem with and could cause a dangerous situation,,,,,,what else should I say! Experienced reload's will recognize this, but the danger is to the beginners that do the "monkey see, monkey do" and hurt themselves. Again, I am maybe over cautious, but so be it......................... I'm not at all embarrassed to ask the question cause I was truly confused in the difference in terminology in the two posts.........especially since that was the 1st reference to "Remington" (I may have missed it) While they may be the same exact load you are referring to, I am not certain, so therefore the question.

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Author:	cobb [ Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:12 am ]
Post subject:
ttousi wrote: cobb wrote: ttousi wrote: Quote: Otherwise I am both embarrassed and impressed at the same time with 1911fan's 5.56 x 45mm load. Quote: Otherwise I am both embarrassed and impressed at the same time with 1911fan's .223 Remington load. Well which one is it? You should be embarrassed to ask such a question. The forum has some delay in posting and I got another post that gave me a notch in my belt, so what?? Not a joke or an in your face, but there MAY BE some info that there is a problem with and could cause a dangerous situation,,,,,,what else should I say! Experienced reload's will recognize this, but the danger is to the beginners that do the "monkey see, monkey do" and hurt themselves. Again, I am maybe over cautious, but so be it......................... I'm not at all embarrassed to ask the question cause I was truly confused in the difference in terminology in the two posts.........especially since that was the 1st reference to "Remington" (I may have missed it) While they may be the same exact load you are referring to, I am not certain, so therefore the question. Sorry, read your response too fast and thought you where making fun of my double post. I had posted with reference to one cartridge and then edited to reference another and didn't catch the double. For practical purposes they are the same cartridge, the Remington a civilian designation and the 5.56 a military. Military brass may have a thicker case wall, therefore a smaller inside volume which can cause higher pressure if the same exact load data is used as the commercial brass.

Author:	ttousi [ Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:21 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Military brass may have a thicker case wall, therefore a smaller inside volume which can cause higher pressure if the same exact load data is used as the commercial brass. That I didn't know. Subtle difference that could make for a problem. See, I did learn something

Author:	hammAR [ Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:50 am ]
Post subject:
More info and good read on differences here: http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm .

Author:	cobb [ Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:55 am ]
Post subject:
hammAR wrote: More info and good read on differences here: http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm . Good info!

Author:	farmerj [ Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:51 am ]
Post subject:
ttousi wrote: Quote: Military brass may have a thicker case wall, therefore a smaller inside volume which can cause higher pressure if the same exact load data is used as the commercial brass. That I didn't know. Subtle difference that could make for a problem. See, I did learn something That is also why you cannot shoot .223 in a 5.56 Nato chamber and the same deal with a 7.62/.308 set-up. Headspace changes also.

Author:	hammAR [ Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:56 am ]
Post subject:
farmerj wrote: That is also why you cannot shoot .223 in a 5.56 Nato chamber and the same deal with a 7.62/.308 set-up. Headspace changes also. I think that it is the other way around, you should not shoot Mil ammo in a civilian weapon......military ammo is typically loaded to higher pressures and velocities than commercial ammo and may, in guns with extremely tight "match" chambers, be unsafe to fire. Example, shooting 5.56 Mil-Spec ammo in a SAAMI-specification chamber can increase pressure dramatically, up to an additional 15,000 psi or more........................same-same.... .

Author:	KonaSeven [ Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:58 am ]
Post subject:
farmerj wrote: That is also why you cannot shoot .223 in a 5.56 Nato chamber and the same deal with a 7.62/.308 set-up. Headspace changes also. It is the other way around. 5.56 in a .223Rem chamber is a bad idea. There is a significant difference in the Leade. However your point is well taken. ETA: Sorry hammAR didn't mean to dupe your post. Yours must have posted while I was reading/replying.

Author:	farmerj [ Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:16 am ]
Post subject:
KonaSeven wrote: farmerj wrote: That is also why you cannot shoot .223 in a 5.56 Nato chamber and the same deal with a 7.62/.308 set-up. Headspace changes also. It is the other way around. 5.56 in a .223Rem chamber is a bad idea. There is a significant difference in the Leade. However your point is well taken. ETA: Sorry hammAR didn't mean to dupe your post. Yours must have posted while I was reading/replying. The NATO have a high pressure spec. Good reason not to put NATO ammo in a SAAMI spec gun. The NATO have a longer headspace. Good reason not to put SAAMI spec into a NATO spec gun.

Author:	hammAR [ Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:44 am ]
Post subject:
farmerj wrote: The NATO have a high pressure spec. Good reason not to put NATO ammo in a SAAMI spec gun. The NATO have a longer headspace. Good reason not to put SAAMI spec into a NATO spec gun. Good, Jon....... Bottom line, know your weapon and know your munitions. If you have a precision weapon use use hand loads, or if you must you can use commercial munitions. If you have a bullet hose, garbage in = garbage out............ .

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Author:	KonaSeven [ Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:52 am ]
Post subject:
farmerj wrote: The NATO have a high pressure spec. Good reason not to put NATO ammo in a SAAMI spec gun. The NATO have a longer headspace. Good reason not to put SAAMI spec into a NATO spec gun. NATO does have a slightly higher pressure spec. However the "unsafe" pressures are reached when firing NATO ammo in a comparatively tight SAAMI chamber. The pressures can spike as much as 20,000 psi higher than SAAMI specs in test chambers. A NATO chamber does have a slightly longer headspace, reportedly to allow chambering in less than ideal conditions. The Leade is also longer. This longer Leade has been blamed for reduced accuracy when firing .223Rem ammo. Even when using Match grade. There is much debate about this reported loss of accuracy on the Varmint and Long range shooter forums. However it does not create an unsafe condition. This is why some order a NATO spec chamber, to be able to shoot both factory .223 and mil-spec. ammo. But the .223 chamber is generally preferred for the long range target/varmint crowd. ETA: Of course if you handload, you can tailor your brass and loads to your gun and chamber. This will provide the best accuracy in most situations.