Twin Cities Carry Forum Archive
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Cobb's gripe
http://twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11123		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  cobb [ Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Cobb's gripe
Andrew, you do a lot in the carry community, but then you pull some childish thing like this.

Andrew Rothman wrote:
You have been arrogant, absolutist, and insulting for nearly as long as you have been here.


Not that I don't agree with you on the reason for a time out, but then to post this:

Andrew Rothman wrote:
If you want to sling around insults, I suggest the <a href=http://mnguntalk.com>day care site</a>.


You have to insult another forum in the same thread that you give a member on this forum a time out for be insulting, come on..... :roll:
Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:29 am ]
Post subject: 
That's a fair criticism.

No, not the charge of hypocrisy, but the "day care site" designation.

I have visited over there lately, and it's gone from bad to worse to even worse. The incivility has driven away most of the civil posters.

"Day care site" may be a too-kind designation. "Lord of the Flies den of iniquity" might be better. :)

Oh, and while personal attacks are forbidden here, reviewing other sites is not.

Still, and by way of mild apology, I could have moved your criticism above here the day you made it. Instead, I quarantined the post until I could discuss it with Joel. Once I did, this is where we decided to put it.

I think you're wrong, and you may think I'm wrong, but being wrong is also not against the rules, thank goodness. :)
Author:  hypertech [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:16 am ]
Post subject: 
I've been debating whether to post on this or not. I just don't get it. Why is it necessary to jab other sites? I don't think those are criticisms I think they are insults. A person of your stature in the community and on this board should be above that.

I find this whole thing especially strange because that site was born out of the sudden shutdown of this one. Maybe I just don't notice it (I mostly read this site), but I don't see this site slammed over there like it is here. Most of the childish behavior in this site animosity war seems to be located here.

Each site serves a purpose and they are both good sites. All this nonsense just isn't needed and does nothing constructive.
Author:  macphisto [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:21 am ]
Post subject: 
hypertech wrote:
Each site serves a purpose and they are both good sites. All this nonsense just isn't needed and does nothing constructive.

+1
Author:  plblark [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't think anyone on any side of this rivalry has a lock on childish or immature behavior. There's a fair amount of TCC slamming going on at MGT but it is usually aimed at individuals and not the whole board. It's often done with inside joke references but it's there just below the surface.
Author:  1911fan [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
That other site also has raised close to a thousand dollars for Toys for tots, raised enough cash to pay for a weapon ammo and training for a victim of a horrendous crime. It also has had numerous successful social events where our points of view have been positively presented to the community. The last breakfast had over forty attendees so it clearly must be meeting some of the needs of some in the carry community.
Author:  Andrew Rothman [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
You know what? If you enjoy one site, the other, or both, feel free to spend your time here, there or in both places.

My observation was, and is, that behavior that will get you shown the exit over here seems to be quite acceptable over there. Therefore, if you want to act like a jerk, I recommend that site over this one.

That's not an insult -- that's a legitimate observation.

Anyone who thinks that there's even a snowball's chance in hell that I'll keep my opinions to myself really doesn't know me very well at all.
Author:  joelr [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
1911fan wrote:
[Day care] must be meeting some of the needs of some in the carry community.
Well, yeah. Whether that's bug or feature, folks get to have -- and express, here and elsewhere -- differing opinions.

I don't think that the day care site comes in for a lot of criticism here, as it doesn't come up for much discussion at all, most of the time. (Quick check: do a search for "day care" and then try to find discussions of it. There's some, sure, but not a lot.) But as long as we're on the subject, as I wrote in a private email, yesterday, to a Forum member who raised the subject (note: I'm quoting from an email I sent, not received):
Quote:
As to the phrase "day care site" pointing youknowwhere, don't blame Andrew; blame me -- I set up the word filter that automagically adds the link, and did it something like a year ago.

More seriously, as to him (or anybody else) taking shots at the day care site, well, I'd be awfully hypocritical if I chastised anybody for that, given that I not only feel comfortable in doing it, but in suggesting that ill-behaved and ignorant folks -- like tacticaninja32, or whoever -- head over there. (Yes, I'm aware that some smart and decent folks, like yourself, also post there, and I don't have a problem with that, either.) TacticaNinja32, by the way, thinks it rocks, so it was obviously the right fit.

That said, it isn't the case, as you suggest, that I don't care for how Rucker runs day care -- to the extent that I know anything about how he's doing it, it's fine with me. If I had the choice of him pulling the plug or keeping it going, I'd definitely go for keeping going.
Honest, I think that the folks who want to participate there should, and I think in this, as in some other things, I'm going to get my wish, although it's not high on my list.
Author:  joelr [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Andrew Rothman wrote:
You know what? If you enjoy one site, the other, or both, feel free to spend your time here, there or in both places.

My observation was, and is, that behavior that will get you shown the exit over here seems to be quite acceptable over there. Therefore, if you want to act like a jerk, I recommend that site over this one.

That's not an insult -- that's a legitimate observation.
Nah. It's both. It's a legitimate observation to say that, say, Illinois has a governor who is both corrupt and dumb, or that Patrick Pogan is a corrupt thug <s>with a badge and gun</s> who used to have a badge and gun who managed to get himself caught -- but both are also insults.
Author:  joelr [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
hypertech wrote:
I've been debating whether to post on this or not. I just don't get it. Why is it necessary to jab other sites? I don't think those are criticisms I think they are insults. A person of your stature in the community and on this board should be above that.
I dunno. I think that sort of argument sets up a fairly unfair standard, where folks of ( usually deservedly) low-repute get to take cheap shots and their preferred targets are required to ignore the cheap shots. I'm not entirely sure I'm comfortable with being required to live up to that standard, all in all.
Author:  jaysong [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Come on now folks. Only YOU can prevent the loss of your "human right". I know we all have egos but get over it. We need to stick together. That does not mean we all have to agree on everything or even have a love fest for each other but it may mean we need to swallow our pride and be humble once in a while. To put it another way. "Chose the hill you want to die on."
Author:  joelr [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
jaysong wrote:
Come on now folks. Only YOU can prevent the loss of your "human right". I know we all have egos but get over it. We need to stick together. That does not mean we all have to agree on everything or even have a love fest for each other but it may mean we need to swallow our pride and be humble once in a while. To put it another way. "Chose the hill you want to die on."
Well, humility actually does come pretty easy to me -- I'm probably more aware of my failings than anybody who regularly participates on the Forum (Greg aside; he knows my failing better than anybody else here) -- but as I think plblark demonstrated, not too long ago, the notion of expecting any action out of the day care site crowd with regard to actually doing anything toward protecting our rights (any of them, come to think of it; sheesh, at least some in that crowd, were the Third Amendment to be violated, would be asking what kind of kneepads would ingratiate themselves with their new boarders) is much less sensible than expecting action out of some knitting forum group.

That said, I'm perfectly willing to be proven wrong. But I'll not be holding my breath.
Author:  kecker [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
jaysong wrote:
Come on now folks. Only YOU can prevent the loss of your "human right". I know we all have egos but get over it. We need to stick together. That does not mean we all have to agree on everything or even have a love fest for each other but it may mean we need to swallow our pride and be humble once in a while. To put it another way. "Chose the hill you want to die on."


Fair enough, but I'd rather chose the hill I want to LIVE on.
Author:  Binky .357 [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
My two cents, even though nobody asked for it;

It's not so much the daycare site as it is the "Special Needs Mainstreaming Site". My generation probably remembers "special needs mainstreaming"...

Lump all the kids into one classroom, despite their level of intelligence or ability. Drag the smarter kids down to the lowest common denominator and bore them so that they loose interest.
Author:  joelr [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Binky .357 wrote:
My two cents, even though nobody asked for it;

It's not so much the daycare site as it is the "Special Needs Mainstreaming Site". My generation probably remembers "special needs mainstreaming"...

Lump all the kids into one classroom, despite their level of intelligence or ability. Drag the smarter kids down to the lowest common denominator and bore them so that they loose interest.
And they say I'm mean. Well, yeah; it's kind of the short bus of the gun crowd, but, hey, it's not like there's anything wrong with that.

And, that said, when the Joyce Foundation groups -- you know? the ones funded by the Pres-elect's former organization -- go looking for excuses to pass more silly gun laws, they're probably not going to be pointing to Andy Shapero and company first. By much.
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