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CSM: AK-47 Background Check Bill Stuck in Committee
http://twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=12076
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Author:  Lenny7 [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  CSM: AK-47 Background Check Bill Stuck in Committee

From Citizens for a "Safer" Minnesota:

Quote:
AK-47 Background Check Bill Stuck in Committee -- Take Action Today!

Dear Lenny7,

The New York Times reports that Mexican drug cartels are assassinating police officials with high-powered weapons bought in the U.S. The cartels are taking advantage of loose U.S. gun laws and an expired assault weapons ban - with disastrous results for Mexico.

The gun lobby would have you believe it can't happen here -- and it is pressuring key Minnesota committees to reject a common-sense bill to close the gun show/Internet loophole. These committees need to hear from you!

Click here to act now!

http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/22 ... _KEY=26839

The Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association supports H.F. 953, aware that we have gangs in Minnesota, too. It makes no sense to leave a gaping loophole in our law that allows the sale, with no background check, of pistols and assault weapons by unlicensed sellers. This bill deserves a hearing!

Minnesota needs to have a law to stop such transactions as in-state web site sales that are really trafficking; private sales like the sales in Pillager, MN that fueled a pipeline of guns to Twin Cities gangs; and gun show sales with no background check, like the one that armed the Hennepin County Government Center shooter.

Click here to take action today! http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/22 ... _KEY=26839

Thank you for all you do,

Heather Martens

Executive Director, Citizens for a Safer Minnesota/Protect Minnesota

Read more:

U.S. is vast arms bazaar for Mexican drug cartels

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/us/26borders.html

"The sheer volume of licensed dealers - more than 6,600 along the border alone, many of them operating out of their houses - makes policing them a tall order. Currently the A.T.F. has about 200 agents assigned to the task."

"...Some of the smuggled weapons are also bought from private individuals at gun shows, and the law requires no notification of the authorities in those cases."

22,500 Guns Trafficked Through Unlicensed Sellers

http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/ls723.htm

Author:  joelr [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:57 am ]
Post subject: 

Have we gotten an answer as whether or not the MCA actually supports this gun registration bill?

Author:  kimberman [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:10 pm ]
Post subject: 

joelr wrote:
Have we gotten an answer as whether or not the MCA actually supports this gun registration bill?


We need this information. ASAP

Author:  joelr [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:25 pm ]
Post subject: 

kimberman wrote:
joelr wrote:
Have we gotten an answer as whether or not the MCA actually supports this gun registration bill?


We need this information. ASAP
Agreed; I put in a call to the executive director an hour ago. No response yet.

I don't think it would be a bad thing if other folks would make a polite inquiry. After I showed up there, in the wake of some of their less adorable activities, with what I know they thought (but I didn't say; it only occurred to me later) were two FBI guys in tow, there's been a certain . . . concern about me at the MCA/MSA.

Author:  Mosin [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:05 pm ]
Post subject: 

kimberman wrote:
joelr wrote:
Have we gotten an answer as whether or not the MCA actually supports this gun registration bill?


We need this information. ASAP


The Executive Director is out of the office until tomorrow morning.

There has been no official statement made. Right now the executive committee is trying to figure out where Paymar is getting his info from. And they are considering what an official statement would be.

Author:  Dave Pendleton [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:48 pm ]
Post subject: 

What if they do or don't?

Author:  joelr [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:19 pm ]
Post subject: 

Dave Pendleton wrote:
What if they do or don't?
We handle it. If we can confirm that the CSM folks are lying, again, about support for their gun registration bill, we call them liars. Publicly. Ditto for Paymar.

We don't do that unless we can confirm it.

If the MCA wants to cross the self-defense movement, again, they can do so. We have very long memories.

Author:  Mosin [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:42 pm ]
Post subject: 

From MCPA

Quote:
The Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association sent a letter to Citizens for a Safer Minnesota stating we give limited support of this bill. The issues we had concern about were Nics checks a requirement at gun shows.

We are not participating in the process to have this bill passed. If you have further questions, you may contact our Executive Director Harlan Johnson.

Mary Henning

Communications and Training Coordinator

mary@mnchiefs.org


Looks like Paymar may have streeeeetched the truth a little on that one.

Author:  kimberman [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:12 pm ]
Post subject: 

The Chief's Association's position is unintelligible.

All the police groups that I've spoken with say they aren't pushing any gun-related bills this year. CSM and Paymar are just a front, like the CPUSA in the 1950s, for the Brady Campaign's national effort to "Californicate" other state's gun laws.

They have the exact thing Paymar wants in California (for 10 years) and a recent Study by University of Maryland criminologists demonstrates that ALL THE HASSLE IS FOR NAUGHT. There is NO reduction in murder, suicide, or crime as a result of making all firearm transfers go through FFL dealers. But there is harassment -- some people have to drive 50 miles to find a cooperating dealer and everyone has to pay an extra $100 to have the transfer recorded in the dealer's bound book (i.e., "registered" Mr. Paymar).

Author:  Mosin [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:44 pm ]
Post subject: 

Copy of letter from MNCPA to Citizens for Safer Minnesota

Quote:
March 6, 2009


Heather Martens
President
Citizens for Safer Minnesota



Re: H.F. 953

Dear President Martens

The Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association supports the effort of Citizens for Safer Minnesota to change the current Minnesota law to include background checks be conducted at gun shows throughout Minnesota. Recent news reports indicate the growing number of guns purchased by straw buyers in the U.S. are being found in Mexico and used by drug dealers.

Background checks could be easily accomplished at gun shows and would relieve the concerns of the vendors that an effort was made to ensure that a person not eligible for take[sic] delivery of a firearm was legally denied and the public safety was maintained.

Sincerely


Harlan Johnson
Executive Director
Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association


According to this they support the bill. Harlan Johnson is gone now for the day so I couldn't get clarity. I do have a message in to him.

Author:  Mosin [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:04 pm ]
Post subject: 

kimberman wrote:
The Chief's Association's position is unintelligible.

All the police groups that I've spoken with say they aren't pushing any gun-related bills this year. CSM and Paymar are just a front, like the CPUSA in the 1950s, for the Brady Campaign's national effort to "Californicate" other state's gun laws.

They have the exact thing Paymar wants in California (for 10 years) and a recent Study by University of Maryland criminologists demonstrates that ALL THE HASSLE IS FOR NAUGHT. There is NO reduction in murder, suicide, or crime as a result of making all firearm transfers go through FFL dealers. But there is harassment -- some people have to drive 50 miles to find a cooperating dealer and everyone has to pay an extra $100 to have the transfer recorded in the dealer's bound book (i.e., "registered" Mr. Paymar).


If anyone is interested in the UMD study
http://www.closup.umich.edu/research/wo ... -final.pdf

Author:  tman065 [ Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:00 pm ]
Post subject: 

Mosin wrote:
Copy of letter from MNCPA to Citizens for Safer Minnesota

Quote:


Harlan Johnson
Executive Director
Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association




Harlan and I met professionally twice when I was in college a couple of decades ago... I deserved both of the summons' he wrote. :oops:

Our relationship is a little more friendly now, and I would be willing to contact him about the Chiefs Associaton's position. I do think he will give me time, but I don't believe that the chiefs will rethink their position.

Author:  joelr [ Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:32 am ]
Post subject: 

tman065 wrote:
Mosin wrote:
Copy of letter from MNCPA to Citizens for Safer Minnesota

Quote:


Harlan Johnson
Executive Director
Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association




Harlan and I met professionally twice when I was in college a couple of decades ago... I deserved both of the summons' he wrote. :oops:

Our relationship is a little more friendly now, and I would be willing to contact him about the Chiefs Associaton's position. I do think he will give me time, but I don't believe that the chiefs will rethink their position.
That's okay. I think that silence gives consent, and being silent about the Chiefs signing onto the CSM gun registration bill is something we don't want to do.

Author:  Mosin [ Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:51 am ]
Post subject: 

From Harlan:

Quote:
Yes, we support that NICS check be conducted at gun shows where vendors have not been afforded the protection that larger retail dealers have to ensure that the sale of a firearm is to a legitimate purchaser. It is no more taxing or time consuming than a citizen would do if they purchased a gun a Gander Mountain.

We do not consider vendors at gun shows to be “private sales.”

We support the concept that private citizen sales as a non-dealer seller (or giving a gun) to another private citizen. We do not support the age old H.R. 45 that has been around for years and without any support or merit that would ban causal sales or gifting of guns to friends and family members.

Straw buyers, unfortunately, are being blamed for 6500 deaths in Mexico by the Mexican government.

I hope this answers your questions satisfactorily.

Harlan Johnson

Author:  DeanC [ Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:01 am ]
Post subject: 

That's weaselly.

FFL's at gun shows must still conduct a NICS check already. He agrees that private citizens shouldn't have to run a NICS check.

But he is inventing a new third class of seller: a vendor. What is a vendor? A non-licensed gun dealer? I think we already have laws covering those activities.

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