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 AR-15 legality in Minnesota 
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:20 pm 
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jmaynard wrote:
Where do you take yours to shoot around here?


I shoot out at the Fairmont Trap Club.

$200 tax stamp from the ATF for short barrel. Mine in the picture is 7 inches. The police chief was nice enough to sign off on my paperwork for it.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:46 pm 
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You can have the same thing without the ATF paperwork if you get the pistol version, you just can't put a stock on it.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:42 pm 
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kimberman wrote:
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you need a pistol permit to purchase (or permit to carry) to buy an eeeevil baby-killing "semiautomatic military-style assault weapon."

Howard Orenstein's doing.
I'm so glad we (and NRA) beat him in the judicial election.


I walked out of the gun shop with my new EBR in less than 20 minutes after showing my carry permit.


+1 on beating Orenstein
http://www.twincities.com/ci_10904115?source=most_emailed


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:41 am 
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Jay Maynard? THE Jay Maynard? Never expected to see you here!

I picked up a Smith & Wesson AR15X a few months ago - Love it! I let my neighbor (an Obama lover) be the first to shoot it. He had a blast :twisted:

Lots of choices and options on these rifles (check out www.ar15.com).

Good luck!

Oh, BTW, I love the Zodiac!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:46 am 
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PhoneBoy wrote:
Jay Maynard? THE Jay Maynard? Never expected to see you here!

Yup, it's me, all right.

Quote:
Lots of choices and options on these rifles (check out www.ar15.com).

Yeah, kinda confusing. At this point, I'm seriously considering taking the advice I got from Mad Mike Williamson and building it up just the way I want it. Of course, that means I have to figure out just how I want it... :)

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Oh, BTW, I love the Zodiac!

I do, too. I hope I get to keep it over the next 4 years.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:36 am 
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Isn't it racist to be worried and upset by a rifle because it is black? :twisted:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:33 pm 
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From what I understood, the federal government no longer defined firearms under a legal category of "assault rifles" since the AWB expired.

I looked at Minnesota's legislation but couldn't find a definition of a "semiautomatic military-style assault weapon"... Does anyone know where this is, or if any efforts are underway to get this wording removed from Minnesota Statutes?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:14 pm 
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http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/stat ... .624.712.7

Quote:
Subd. 7.Semiautomatic military-style assault weapon.

"Semiautomatic military-style assault weapon" means:

(1) any of the following firearms:

(i) Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK-47) semiautomatic rifle type;

(ii) Beretta AR-70 and BM-59 semiautomatic rifle types;

(iii) Colt AR-15 semiautomatic rifle type;

(iv) Daewoo Max-1 and Max-2 semiautomatic rifle types;

(v) Famas MAS semiautomatic rifle type;

(vi) Fabrique Nationale FN-LAR and FN-FNC semiautomatic rifle types;

(vii) Galil semiautomatic rifle type;

(viii) Heckler & Koch HK-91, HK-93, and HK-94 semiautomatic rifle types;

(ix) Ingram MAC-10 and MAC-11 semiautomatic pistol and carbine types;

(x) Intratec TEC-9 semiautomatic pistol type;

(xi) Sigarms SIG 550SP and SIG 551SP semiautomatic rifle types;

(xii) SKS with detachable magazine semiautomatic rifle type;

(xiii) Steyr AUG semiautomatic rifle type;

(xiv) Street Sweeper and Striker-12 revolving-cylinder shotgun types;

(xv) USAS-12 semiautomatic shotgun type;

(xvi) Uzi semiautomatic pistol and carbine types; or

(xvii) Valmet M76 and M78 semiautomatic rifle types;

(2) any firearm that is another model made by the same manufacturer as one of the firearms listed in clause (1), and has the same action design as one of the listed firearms, and is a redesigned, renamed, or renumbered version of one of the firearms listed in clause (1), or has a slight modification or enhancement, including but not limited to a folding or retractable stock; adjustable sight; case deflector for left-handed shooters; shorter barrel; wooden, plastic, or metal stock; larger clip size; different caliber; or a bayonet mount; and

(3) any firearm that has been manufactured or sold by another company under a licensing agreement with a manufacturer of one of the firearms listed in clause (1) entered into after the effective date of Laws 1993, chapter 326, to manufacture or sell firearms that are identical or nearly identical to those listed in clause (1), or described in clause (2), regardless of the company of production or country of origin.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:42 pm 
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Andrew Rothman wrote:
http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=624.712#stat.624.712.7.....


Thanks I missed that. So it seems a Barrett REC7 & M82A1 fall outside the scope of a "semiautomatic military-style assault weapon" as Minnesota defines it?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:41 pm 
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"(2) any firearm that is another model made by the same manufacturer as one of the firearms listed in clause (1), and has the same action design as one of the listed firearms, and is a redesigned, renamed, or renumbered version of one of the firearms listed in clause (1), or has a slight modification or enhancement, including but not limited to a folding or retractable stock; adjustable sight; case deflector for left-handed shooters; shorter barrel; wooden, plastic, or metal stock; larger clip size; different caliber; or a bayonet mount; and"

That is a catch all phrase that would include the Barretts since they have a similar "action or design" as stated above. Basically they are saying if it looks, feels, or smells like a military type rifle it is a military rifle.

Derek (just bought a Robinson XCR - waiting for it to arrive)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:34 pm 
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nitzer wrote:
That is a catch all phrase that would include the Barretts since they have a similar "action or design" as stated above. Basically they are saying if it looks, feels, or smells like a military type rifle it is a military rifle.

Derek (just bought a Robinson XCR - waiting for it to arrive)



Well if you're extending the "action or design" from black powder muskets I suppose that's correct! Otherwise I would say the Robinson XCR or Barrett REC7 are completely different designs.

Also speaking as a Super VEPR owner... I'm not sure Robinson Armament is that great of a company. They seem to be highly influenced by Mormon principles which I can't subscribe to.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:23 pm 
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The Robinson would be included in that list in more than one way. Has a folding or retractable stock; adjustable sight; wooden, plastic, or metal stock; larger clip size; different caliber; and an AK-47 type "action". I'm not a Mormon either, but I have had Mormon friends. I have no problems with Mormons doing what they do as long as they don't try and force their religion on me. That goes with any religion. So you are saying that you don't buy Chinese products or take prescription medications since you don't subscribe to any Buddhist principles? As a pharmacy owner I can tell you that over half of all prescription drug ingredients or the drugs themselves come from countries that aren't considered "Christian". I'm not trying to be augmentative, just trying to show you what that argument says to me.

I have also heard the stories of how the VEPR and M96 owners are not happy with Robinson Arms. They are considering doing another run of parts and M96 guns. As far as the VEPRs are concerned, I can see why an American business man might make the decision to get out of the importing of Russian arms and rebuilding them to devote his time, resources, and manpower to a rifle designed and produced in America (ala XCR). Despite the fact that Alex is generally regarded badly by the online community for the manner in which he talks to people, the XCR seems to be a good product. Not everyone in this world was blessed with tact and manors with regards to online posting. I can guarantee that if you owned a company that was constantly attacked on message boards, you would become just as agitated as Alex gets especially when you have invested millions in your product. Tooling up a manufacturing facility isn't cheap. I don't discuss my politics or religion with my friends or customers. It's simply bad for business. Alex should know this, but apparently he doesn't. It's interesting to note though that people post more about problems with something than praise. People also wonder why they are treated badly after contacting customer service starting out their conversation with "xyz product sucks and you better fix it". Not saying that you did that, just making the point. If we were all just a little nicer to each other (especially in online conversations), there are a lot of arguments that could be avoided. I can't count how many times my wife has read an Email from our partners and flown off the deep end simply by the way it was worded when in reality, the partners really didn't mean to infer that kind of tone.

Well, sorry to get off on a rant. Been a long day at work and I'm a little grouchy.... :D

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:26 am 
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nitzer wrote:
The Robinson would be included in that list in more than one way. Has a folding or retractable stock; adjustable sight; wooden, plastic, or metal stock; larger clip size; different caliber; and an AK-47 type "action".


I was talking about the XCR, not the VEPR AK rifles, but it doesn't much matter since the BAC superintendent can classify any firearm as a "semiautomatic military-style assault weapon" under this law. :(


nitzer wrote:
I'm not a Mormon either, but I have had Mormon friends. I have no problems with Mormons doing what they do as long as they don't try and force their religion on me. That goes with any religion... I'm not trying to be augmentative, just trying to show you what that argument says to me.


I think we have a difference of opinion in what constitutes a religion, and what classifies as a cult.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:39 am 
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gyrfalcon wrote:
the BAC superintendent can classify any firearm as a "semiautomatic military-style assault weapon" under this law. :(

Don't you just love it when a regulator can be arbitrary and capricious and get away with it?

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I think we have a difference of opinion in what constitutes a religion, and what classifies as a cult.

Does it make a difference? If I wish the freedom to believe as I choose, then I must recognize that others have that same freedom...and I say that as an atheist. FWIW, I respect Mormons more than some other varieties of Christian, because they are very good about not pushing their religion at you unless you ask.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:21 am 
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jmaynard wrote:
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I think we have a difference of opinion in what constitutes a religion, and what classifies as a cult.

Does it make a difference? If I wish the freedom to believe as I choose, then I must recognize that others have that same freedom


Well said.

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