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 Castle Doctrine Bill 
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:07 pm 
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Location: Uptown Minneapolis
Got a reply from Rep. Frank Hornstein:

Quote:
Dear "Chunkstyle",

Thank you for contacting me regarding HF 498/SF 446, which would modify
the laws governing self-defense. I appreciate your sharing your
perspective.

As I understand it, this proposal is an attempt to clarify the
circumstances under which a person may use deadly-force as a means of
self-defense. Apparently, there is a concern that law-abiding people
could be prosecuted for defending themselves against criminals. One of
the bill's authors has stated, "a person could be charged with a felony
just for defending themselves or their children in their own home."

At the same time, however, there have been several cases where
homeowners have killed or seriously injured intruders without having to
face legal consequences. For example, in 2006 a 73-year-old man --
Gerry Whaley-- shot and killed a burglar who had broken into his home.
That same year Eric Cegon shot and killed a person who broke into his
apartment. In neither case did Mr. Whaley or Mr. Cegon face criminal
prosecution for the killings because their actions were deemed to be
justifiable uses of force.

Given that current law already gives homeowners like Mr.Whaley and Mr.
Cegon the right to use deadly-force in self-defense, it will be
important to hear from the bill's author the complete rationale for the
legislation.

HF 498 is currently in the Public Safety and Civil Law Committee where
the merits and drawbacks of the legislation can be fully assessed.

I am particularly glad you contacted me to share your thoughts. Your
input is helpful to me in understanding the potential impact of this
legislation. Rest assured, if the bill does come up for
consideration,
I will listen to the debate carefully and consider all viewpoints
before
I cast my vote. I will be honest with you, at this time, I am not in
favor of the bill.

Again, thank you for contacting me. I hope you will continue to advise
me on the issues that are of interest to you. I rely upon the calls,
letters, and e-mails I receive to help me understand the views of our
community on the matters that face our state.

Sincerely,


Frank Hornstein
State Representative (60B)


Respectful, but not very helpful.

I'm not sure he is seeing the difference between a "good shoot" inside one's home, and one in public.

I'm thinking of a reply.

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"Man has the right to deal with his oppressors by devouring their palpitating hearts." - Jean-Paul Marat


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:59 pm 
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Location: Racine, MN
Apparently, the politicians are more worried about the welfare of the criminals than their victims. :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:29 am
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Location: MN
after all, aren't there always "two victims"? Sarc


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:49 am
Posts: 146
sigman wrote:
Apparently, the politicians are more worried about the welfare of the criminals than their victims. :(


I believe this is the legislator's echoing fears of guns speaking. The echoes coming from the voices of the legislators wives, constituents, anti's, and good ole Big Media. Legislators are in a position of "damned if you do, damned if you don't", and must weigh the fallout of their votes accordingly. The good thing, is that they also tend to be pretty smart individuals, and "helping them see" the reality an issue from another perspective is possible.

It appears from my highly scientific poll on another thread, that a lot of the wives of folks here are not afraid of guns. I am willing to bet it didn't start out this way. We need to wear down those fears in order to get to the issues and "help our legislators see" why it is not a good idea to enact more gun control measures.

Great job on sending letters. More is better. We can make a difference if we are vocal.


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 Post subject: Politician Excuse
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:50 am
Posts: 125
"At the same time, however, there have been several cases where
homeowners have killed or seriously injured intruders without having to
face legal consequences. For example, in 2006 a 73-year-old man --
Gerry Whaley-- shot and killed a burglar who had broken into his home.
That same year Eric Cegon shot and killed a person who broke into his
apartment. In neither case did Mr. Whaley or Mr. Cegon face criminal
prosecution for the killings because their actions were deemed to be
justifiable uses of force. "

And the attorney fees proving thier innocence? Did the wonderful MN pay?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:13 pm 
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Location: St. Louis Park
chunkstyle wrote:
Got a reply from Rep. Frank Hornstein:

Quote:
Dear "Chunkstyle",
... At the same time, however, there have been several cases where
homeowners have killed or seriously injured intruders without having to
face legal consequences. For example, in 2006 a 73-year-old man --
Gerry Whaley-- shot and killed a burglar who had broken into his home...

Not true, Whaley had a cloud of potential prosecution hanging over his head from November 28th 2006 until mid-February 2007, a span of 2.5 months. I would say that soundly qualifies as a "legal consequence", all because some bad guy broke into his house. I think you have a salient counterpoint to Rep. Hornstein's contention that there were no consequences. With castle doctrine law, since it is his house, he would not have had to face the threat of potential prosecution and related stress and worry just because some criminal broke in.

http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3348

http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4117&highlight=whaley

http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4320


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 Post subject: MPLS Tribune Sunday Editorial
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:23 pm 
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Posts: 125
The war is heating up. Typical doom article and uses the same phrases as the anti pols.

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"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains." Winston Churchill


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:37 pm 
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Location: Racine, MN
The antis are really focused on protecting criminals from those nasty law abiding citizens. :roll:


Last edited by sigman on Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Politically Active
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:26 pm 
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Posts: 125
The difference for sucess. Write and donate $$ to the right people in the State and Fed elective reps.

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"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains." Winston Churchill


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:40 am
Posts: 6
Location: Anoka
My State Rep said that he will vote yes on this but that the Senate hates the bill.


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 Post subject: Senate?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:50 am
Posts: 125
And which party runs the Senate, now decide your next vote!!

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"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains." Winston Churchill


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:24 pm 
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Location: South Minneapolis (Nokomis East)
Like I expected any other response from her: :roll:
Quote:
Thank you so much for contacting me to share your views of SF 446, the
“shoot first” bill.

Although I respect your position, I believe that Minnesota already has
comprehensive policies that protect individuals and their families. Our
state faces significant public safety challenges and I don't believe
that this is the way to address them. I strongly oppose this
legislation.

Thanks again for taking the time to connect with me personally about
this issue.

Sincerely,

Patricia Torres Ray


ETA: You know what's funny? I just realized I didn't write to her about "castle doctrine" or "shoot first"- I wrote her about the gun transfer/registration bill. Unfnbelievable.

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I smoke. Thanks for holding your breath.

"Build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a night. Set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life." ~ unknown

Never been tazered. (yet).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:58 pm 
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Location: St Louis Park
Aquaholic wrote:

ETA: You know what's funny? I just realized I didn't write to her about "castle doctrine" or "shoot first"- I wrote her about the gun transfer/registration bill. Unfnbelievable.


Write her back and call her on it. Let her know her constituents are smarter than she is. :)

_________________
Of the people, By the People, For the People. The government exists to serve us, not the reverse.

--------------------
Next MN carry permit class: TBD.

Permit to Carry MN
--------------------

jason <at> metrodefense <dot> com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:10 pm 
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Location: Racine, MN
Evidently she is out of touch with her constituents, not that she cares.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:03 pm 
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Location: South Minneapolis (Nokomis East)
Ok, so I did.

Quote:
Thank you for responding, even though I wrote you regarding SF 2989, a bill regarding private gun sales transfers, which would result in an expensive and unnecessary gun registration scheme, not SF 446.

But, as long as you responded, I thought I might as well add my support to SF 446, a bill that protects the rights of law abiding citizens simply trying to protect themselves and their families against the criminals it seems you worry much more about.

Patricia, I also respect your position, though I believe it is wrong. I really would prefer you focus your energy on the criminals out there, instead of trying to make criminals out of those of us who have already proven otherwise.

Kindest Possible Regards,

_________________
I smoke. Thanks for holding your breath.

"Build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a night. Set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life." ~ unknown

Never been tazered. (yet).


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