DC vs Heller oral arguments
Author |
Message |
ruffelo
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:07 pm |
|
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:56 pm Posts: 76 Location: Minneapolis, MN
|
Does anybody know if these court proceedings will be available for download anywhere tonight (at work now )? Video would be great!
A rebroadcast tonight would also be just fine (DVR's...aren't they great)
|
|
|
|
|
Lawyer_in_Training
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:11 pm |
|
Senior Member |
|
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:22 pm Posts: 339 Location: Suburban Twin Cities, MN
|
C-span.org has a link to the audio in their Supreme Court page. It is probably also going to be available elsewhere.
No cameras are allowed in the Court so there won't be video of the arguments.
C-Span's RealPlayer link to the arguments
Last edited by Lawyer_in_Training on Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
|
|
|
|
|
Lenny7
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:12 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:09 am Posts: 1060 Location: Savage, MN
|
Thanks for the link, Scott, I'll check it out.
|
|
|
|
|
KonaSeven
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:13 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:17 pm Posts: 908 Location: Meeker Co., MN
|
proceedings word count : reasonable
Must have been in the thousands.
|
|
|
|
|
Lenny7
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:23 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:09 am Posts: 1060 Location: Savage, MN
|
I'm not too crazy about Bob Levy (council for Heller) talking about how gun registration might be acceptable as a reasonable restriction on guns. This is the after-hearing interviews on the steps outside and doesn't mean anything in this case, but it still is irritating.
|
|
|
|
|
Dick Unger
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:27 pm |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am Posts: 2444 Location: West Central MN
|
They want an individual right established. If that happens we can argue registration schemes one by one. Registration was not before the court so it was a throwaway issue.
|
|
|
|
|
Lawyer_in_Training
|
Post subject: Oral Arguments Transcripts Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:29 pm |
|
Senior Member |
|
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:22 pm Posts: 339 Location: Suburban Twin Cities, MN
|
|
|
|
|
jdege
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:48 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:23 pm Posts: 1419 Location: SE MPLS
|
Lenny7 wrote: I'm not too crazy about Bob Levy (council for Heller) talking about how gun registration might be acceptable as a reasonable restriction on guns. This is the after-hearing interviews on the steps outside and doesn't mean anything in this case, but it still is irritating. Gura said something similar, in the orals: Quote: JUSTICE GINSBURG: What about this very law?
If you take out the ban -- there is a law on the books. It's one of the ones that you challenged. It's section 22-4504(a). Wouldn't that be okay -- would that be okay? It says that you have to have a license to carry.
MR. GURA: So long as the licensing law is not enforced in an arbitrary and capricious manner, so long as there are some hopefully objective standards and hopefully some process for --
JUSTICE GINSBURG: It just says -- it says you have to get a license if you want to possess a gun. What kind of standard? It just says you have to have a license.
MR. GURA: Well, the government could set reasonable standards for that, Your Honor. The government could require, for example, knowledge of the State's use of force laws. They can require some sort of vision test. They could require, perhaps, demonstrated competency. And those are the types of things that we sometimes see; background checks, of course. Those are going to be reasonable licensing requirements.
However, if the license requirement is we only wanted to give licenses to people who look a certain way or depends on how we feel or if the licensing office is only open Thursdays at 3:00 in the morning -- I mean, it all depends on the implementation.
And I think he's exactly right. I have may question whether registration or licensing actually accomplishes very much, but the fundamental problem with them is in their abusive implementation. My position would be that the history of firearms registration in this country shows so great a pattern of abuse that they should be treated as suspect in all cases, just like poll taxes are. But that they have been frequently abused does not imply that they must of necessity be abusive.
|
|
|
|
|
Lenny7
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:49 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:09 am Posts: 1060 Location: Savage, MN
|
Now on CSPAN they're broadcasting a hearing with the Court of Appeals on indecency rules. It's pretty humorous to hear a suited lawyer saying "f***" and "s***" to a judge.
|
|
|
|
|
Sixstring
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:18 pm |
|
Senior Member |
|
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:39 pm Posts: 309 Location: Fairmont, MN
|
Lenny7 wrote: Now on CSPAN they're broadcasting a hearing with the Court of Appeals on indecency rules. It's pretty humorous to hear a suited lawyer saying "f***" and "s***" to a judge.
Yeah. I'm catching some of that. Pretty funny.
|
|
|
|
|
Andrew Rothman
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:19 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am Posts: 6767 Location: Twin Cities
|
|
|
|
|
plblark
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:22 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:41 am Posts: 4468
|
Quote: Mr. Gura: It's difficult to imagine a construction of Miller, or a construction of the lower court's opinion, that would sanction machine guns or the plastic, undetectable handguns that the Solicitor General spoke of.
WHAT totally plastic undetectable handguns?
_________________ Certified Carry Permit Instructor (MNTactics.com and ShootingSafely.com) Click here for current Carry Classes "There is no safety for honest men, except by believing all possible evil of evil men." - Edwin Burke
|
|
|
|
|
mrokern
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:23 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:40 pm Posts: 2264 Location: Eden Prairie
|
plblark wrote: Quote: Mr. Gura: It's difficult to imagine a construction of Miller, or a construction of the lower court's opinion, that would sanction machine guns or the plastic, undetectable handguns that the Solicitor General spoke of. WHAT totally plastic undetectable handguns?
Must be part of the same unobtainable Glock line as those ceramic ones from Die Hard 2.
-Mark
|
|
|
|
|
KonaSeven
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:25 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:17 pm Posts: 908 Location: Meeker Co., MN
|
Andrew Rothman wrote: 27, according to the transcript. KonaSeven wrote: proceedings word count : reasonable
Must have been in the thousands.
per person? heh heh
Such as "shall not be unreasonably infringed."
Perhaps when saying "thousands", I was engaging in hyperbole? :Gasp:
I hate it when that happens.
|
|
|
|
|
plblark
|
Post subject: Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:43 pm |
|
Longtime Regular |
|
Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:41 am Posts: 4468
|
Here's a link to the audio:
rtsp://video.c-span.org/archive/sc/sc03 ... endment.rm
There are some VERY comforting arguments floating around. Some good leading questions by the justices. the SG emphasized the individual right much more strongly than the scrutiny side.
Mr. Gura made a lot of coherent arguments
Quote: Roberts: these standards that apply in the First Amendment just kind of developed over the years as sort of baggage that the First Amendment picked up. But I don't know why when we are starting afresh, we would try to articulate a whole standard that would apply in every case? Quote: JUSTICE KENNEDY: Well, you're being faithful to Miller. I suggest that Miller may be deficient. MR. GURA: I agree with Your Honor Quote: JUSTICE SOUTER: Well, can they consider the extent of the murder rate in Washington, D.C., using handguns? MR. GURA: If we were to consider the extent of the murder rate with handguns, the law would not survive any type of review, Your Honor. JUSTICE SCALIA: All the more reason to allow a homeowner to have a handgun. MR. GURA: Absolutely, Your Honor. Quote: MR. GURA: [...] the object of the Bill of Rights is to remove certain judgments from the legislature, because we can make policy arguments, normative arguments about many provisions of the Constitution. But to make those arguments and say, well, we've decided as a matter of policy that the right to keep and bear arms is no longer a good idea and, therefore, we are going to have restrictions that violate that stricture in the Bill of Rights, that shouldn't pass judicial review. At some point you have to go to Article 5 if you think that the Constitution is impractical.
And they're rightly beating up Mr. Dellinger on how long it takes to operate a trigger lock and make a gun suitable for personal defense.
_________________ Certified Carry Permit Instructor (MNTactics.com and ShootingSafely.com) Click here for current Carry Classes "There is no safety for honest men, except by believing all possible evil of evil men." - Edwin Burke
|
|
|
|
|
This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.
All times are UTC - 6 hours
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 66 guests |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum
|