Index  •  FAQ  •  Search  

It is currently Sat Apr 27, 2024 5:44 pm

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
 Email from Tony Cornish 
Author Message
 Post subject: Email from Tony Cornish
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:11 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:02 am
Posts: 1684
Location: St Louis Park
Quote:
The Castle Doctrine will be offered as an amendment today on the House Floor.

More than likely it will be handled by a move to "Table the Motion" or by a "Point of Order" saying that it is non-germain.

But, we'll try.

Tony

_________________
Of the people, By the People, For the People. The government exists to serve us, not the reverse.

--------------------
Next MN carry permit class: TBD.

Permit to Carry MN
--------------------

jason <at> metrodefense <dot> com


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:25 pm 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:20 am
Posts: 1317
Location: Racine, MN
I imagine the dems will table it just like they did with the RKBA amendment. I hate to be so pessimistic, but...... :roll:


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:53 pm 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:20 am
Posts: 1317
Location: Racine, MN
I got this from Tony. My rep (Poppe) voted against us and I already e-mailed her. Her feet will be burning. :evil:

We lost. The Speaker ruled that my bill was not germane to the overall bill. Can you believe that? Ha.The Bill we were trying to attach it to was a Public Safety Bill full of cops courts and criminal subjects.

We challenged the Speakers ruling, asked for a Call of the House and a "Roll Call Vote."

Unfortunately, the result was 68 to 64 in favor of the Speaker's ruling that the bill was not germane.

I have the recorded vote on each one of your Reps, and will distribute it.

I might as well just type it in

Voting Against the Castle

Atkins
Benson
Bigham
Bly
Brynaert
Bunn
Carlson
Clark
Davnie
Dittrich
Dominiquez
Fritz
Gardner
Greiling
Hansen
Hausman
Haws
Hilstrom
Hilty
Hornstein
Hortman
Huntley
Jaros
Johnson
Kahn
Knuth
Laine
Lenczewski
Lesch
Liebling
Lieder
Lillie
Loeffler
Mahoney
Mariani
Marquart
Masin
Morgan
Morrow
Mullery
Murphy E.
Murphy M
Nelson
Norton
Paymar
Pelowski
Peterson A
Peterson S
Poppe
Rudd
Sailer
Scalze
Sertich
Simon
Slawik
Slocum
Solberg
Swails
Thao
Thissen
Tillberry
Wagenius
Walker
Welti
Winkler
Wollschlager
Speaker Kelliher


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:07 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:02 am
Posts: 1684
Location: St Louis Park
Followed by another email confident that this will pass on the floor if it can get out of committee.

_________________
Of the people, By the People, For the People. The government exists to serve us, not the reverse.

--------------------
Next MN carry permit class: TBD.

Permit to Carry MN
--------------------

jason <at> metrodefense <dot> com


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:12 pm 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:20 am
Posts: 1317
Location: Racine, MN
princewally wrote:
Followed by another email confident that this will pass on the floor if it can get out of committee.


Yes, we have more hoops to jump through.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:39 pm 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:54 am
Posts: 2444
Location: West Central MN
As i understand it, this would not have passed the Senate this year. I'm glad we are on the offensive, instead of just fighting the registration bill.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:53 pm 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:59 am
Posts: 434
Location: Twin Cities
I'm really glad to see the vote was once again very close. We might just have a chance next year...

_________________
“...whoever rescues a single life earns as much merit as though he had rescued the entire world”
-The Talmud

Protect yourself and the ones you love.

NRA Certified Instructor
MADFI Certified Instructor


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:13 pm 
Journeyman Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:36 pm
Posts: 95
Location: SE suburbs of St Paul
Here's the email I just sent to my Rep (Karla Bigham)



Quote:
Ms Bigham,

I'm forced to write once again regarding my displeasure with one of your votes.

On Thursday, April 3 Rep Cornish attached the "Castle Doctrine Bill" as an amendment to a Public Safety Bill. The Speaker wanted the amendment pulled claiming that it was not germane to the bill. You, unfortunately, voted with the Speaker, once again preventing important legislation from having a chance to pass.

To say the HF498 is not germane to a Public Safety Bill is ridicules, HF498 is about public safety, it is about allowing the the public the legal right to defend themselves from criminal attacks while in public.

Under the current law if my wife is attacked and raped in a public place she has no legal recourse except to attempt to flee-if she is unable to do that, she has no choice but to submit to being a victim of a vicious criminal.

Let's stop making the State of Minnesota a safer place for criminals and start making it safer for the good, law abiding citizens.

In closing, I would remind you again that your votes count - and so does mine

Respectfully,
[Redacted]
[Redacted], MN

_________________
Life Member-National Rifle Association
Life Member-Ctizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
Minnesota Permit to Carry holder
Member-North American Hunting Club
Veteran - US Army


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:38 am 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:20 am
Posts: 1317
Location: Racine, MN
I got some rather favorable replies to several e-mail exchanges with Representative Poppe. Here are the last couple of them:

> Actually throughout the day I voted with the opposite political party for
> many amendments as they tried to take out the policy. And I spoke to my
> own caucus about my concerns about policy in this bill. You are right
> there are political "games" and unfortunately that is the way it is and
> it's difficult to overcome them. And unfortunately the games get played
> by both political parties.
>
> In the past two weeks I did vote against the Speaker on germaneness when
> this amendment came forward on another bill. As I think about it I
> probably should have given up on the principles and gone with the vote to
> show my support. At the time I was in the midst of keeping the strategy
> pure to get and keep policy provisions out of the bill.
> Jeanne
>
> Representative Jeanne Poppe

I am hoping I partially redeemed myself. I just voted on a similar germane ruling vote but this time I voted against the speaker on an amendment to put the right to bear arms on the MN constitution. Unfortunately it went down 67 to 65.
Jeanne

Representative Jeanne Poppe


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:14 am 
Journeyman Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:59 pm
Posts: 83
Location: East metro
This is my letter to Representative Swails.
I'll apologize in advance for cribbing language from Joel and parap1445, but the words in the last half of the letter are mine.

Swails is a teacher, so I hope my example will hit home with her.

I'll follow up with snail-mail.

Quote:
Dear Ms. Swails,

I'm forced to write regarding my displeasure with one of your votes.

On Thursday, April 3 Rep Cornish attached the "Castle Doctrine Bill" as an amendment to a Public Safety Bill. The Speaker wanted the amendment pulled claiming that it was not germane to the bill. You, unfortunately, voted with the Speaker, preventing important legislation from having a chance to be heard on the House floor.

To say the HF498 is not germane to a Public Safety Bill is ridiculous: HF498 is about public safety, it is about allowing the the public the legal right to defend themselves from criminal attacks while in public.

Under the current law if my wife or daughter is attacked and raped in a public place she has no legal recourse except to attempt to flee-if she is unable to do that, she has no choice but to submit to being the victim of a vicious criminal.

There are quite a few other states that already have just this law -- tweaked slightly, from state to state, to make the language consistent with pre-existing state law:

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Colorado
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Michigan
Mississippi
Missouri
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
South Dakota

Since you disagree with HF498, show me where, in the more than two dozen states that have similar language in their self-defense laws, authorizing scaring an attacker or not retreating has resulted in bad things happening that likely otherwise wouldn't.

Opponents to this bill use inflammatory rhetoric calling it the "Shoot First!" or the "Shoot the Avon Lady" bill: show me the statistics where this type of bill has caused harm- I'm asking you to give me the count of dead Avon ladies.

Let's offer a real-world scenario:
Suppose you are a realtor alone at an open house, or you are a teacher alone at school after hours correcting exams.
You are suddenly confronted by a knife wielding attacker who demands what can only be described as your worst nightmare.

Under current Minnesota law, if you are an unwilling participant faced with imminent death or severe bodily harm, unless you are in your own home you have a duty to retreat from the situation before you can defend yourself with lethal force.
Quick, can you make it out the door or through the window before the attacker is upon you, attempt to fight the attacker with your car keys, or save your life by stopping the attacker by exercising lethal force?

Notice I didn't say "kill" the attacker, I said "stop."
Under current law, unless you retreat, even displaying a weapon constitutes aggravated assault, and using the weapon to stop the attacker will be prosecuted as attempted murder or worse.

Decide quickly!
Better to submit to the attack and leave your fate in the hands of a rapist/murderer, or face prosecution for defending yourself?

Under current Minnesota law, if you decide to defend yourself, you will automatically be arrested and your fate will be left to a prosecuting attorney, a jury, and how much justice you can afford.

HF498 essentially amends the law by stating:
"(b) A law enforcement agency may arrest a person using force under circumstances described in this section ONLY after considering any claims or circumstances supporting self-defense."

So basically the amendment is asking the police to at least consider your claim to self defense instead of automatically arresting you.

Let's stop making the State of Minnesota a safer place for criminals and start making it safer for the good, law abiding citizens.

In closing, I would remind you again that your votes count - and so does mine

Respectfully,


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:30 am 
Senior Member

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:49 am
Posts: 146
Excellent eldo. I would also remind them that *we* are keeping an eye on their voting record and *will* be scrutinizing them in the public forums with evidence and facts (as you have done here) :)

One way to strike fear into legislators is with the truth ;)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:31 pm 
Journeyman Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:36 pm
Posts: 95
Location: SE suburbs of St Paul
Quote:
eldo wrote:
I'll apologize in advance for cribbing language from Joel and parap1445, but the words in the last half of the letter are mine.


they say that Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I glad you found my words eloquent enough to use.

I always end my correspondence with my eleceted officials with the reminder that their votes count, and so does mine, in the hope that they "get it" that I (we) are watching their votes and will remember how they voted when we cast our ballots on election day.

_________________
Life Member-National Rifle Association
Life Member-Ctizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms
Minnesota Permit to Carry holder
Member-North American Hunting Club
Veteran - US Army


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:12 pm 
Senior Member

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:39 pm
Posts: 124
sigman wrote:
I imagine the dems will table it just like they did with the RKBA amendment. I hate to be so pessimistic, but...... :roll:



Dont paint all Dems with one brush. My rep. Jeremy kailin has been good on 2a bills. Give credit where credit is due.

_________________
But if “bear
arms” means, as the petitioners and the dissent think, the
Opinion of the Court
carrying of arms only for military purposes, one simply
cannot add “for the purpose of killing game.” The right “to
carry arms in the militia for the purpose of killing game”
is worthy of the mad hatter.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:33 pm 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:20 am
Posts: 1317
Location: Racine, MN
jrp267 wrote:
sigman wrote:
I imagine the dems will table it just like they did with the RKBA amendment. I hate to be so pessimistic, but...... :roll:



Dont paint all Dems with one brush. My rep. Jeremy kailin has been good on 2a bills. Give credit where credit is due.


I don't paint all dems with the same brush. My rep is a dem, who is also pro-gun. However, the dem leadership is not pro gun and is responsible for our bills not passing. Look into it. That is exactly what happened on the Castle Doctrine and the RKBA bills.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:23 am 
Senior Member

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:38 am
Posts: 103
Location: Up North
I emailed my rep Mary Murphy on this. Last time I asked her views on the subject she dodged it by saying she was not on the committee that will hear that bill. Even though I was just asking her views. Seems as if she didn't want to come out on the subject.
She did ask for my address however... :?:


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours


 Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 52 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


 
Index  |  FAQ  |  Search

phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group