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 BART Police Shoot unarmed handcuffed man in the back 
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 Post subject: BART Police Shoot unarmed handcuffed man in the back
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:15 am 
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New video shows BART officer shooting Hayward man in the back
By Sean Maher
Oakland Tribune
Posted: 01/04/2009 10:10:58 PM PST

OAKLAND — A BART police officer struggling to handcuff a 22-year-old man, stood up over the facedown Hayward resident and fired a single shot into his back while a handful of officers watched, a video taken by a train passenger apparently shows.

The attorney for the family of Oscar Grant III, fatally shot by an unidentified BART officer early New Year's Day, said Sunday he plans to file a $25 million lawsuit against the department and asked prosecutors to consider filing murder charges against the officer.

The shooting occurred shortly before 2 a.m. Thursday after five officers responded to the Fruitvale station to reports of a fight on a train, officials said, though they have not confirmed whether Grant
was involved in the fight.

The new video, obtained by television station KTVU, shows two officers restraining a struggling suspect. While the man is lying face down on the ground, one officer appears to be seen pulling out a gun and firing a single shot into his back.

Civil rights attorney John Burris, known for his work in several high-profile cases involving police abuse and corruption, said at a Sunday news conference that the shooting was "the most unconscionable shooting" he has ever seen. He said that the Alameda County district attorney should consider filing charges of second degree murder or manslaughter against the officer.

"I've drafted a notice of claim against BART for $25 million I plan to submit officially,"

Burris said, adding that the officer had violated Grant's civil rights and caused his wrongful death.

The Police Department is in the early stages of a thorough investigation, BART police Chief Gary Gee said Sunday at a news conference. He declined to discuss many details, as doing so "before all the facts are in could compromise individual recollections and do disservice to the truth and the answers we're all seeking."

BART police are cooperating fully with a parallel investigation by the Alameda County district attorney's office, Gee said.

Gee declined to identify the officer but said he is a two-year BART police veteran. The officer was given drug and alcohol tests before being sent home on administrative leave Thursday, Gee said.

The last BART officer-involved shooting occurred in May 2001, Gee said.

Mario Pangelina Jr., whose sister had a 4-year-old daughter with Grant, said he was on the same train as Grant that night, but on a different car. He said he saw Grant's interactions with police immediately before the shooting.

"First, an officer grabbed Oscar by the neck and pushed him against the wall," Pangelina said. "Oscar didn't fight him, but he didn't go down either. He was like, 'What did I do?' Then another officer came up with his Taser and held it right in his face. Oscar said, 'Please don't shoot me, please don't Taser me, I have a daughter,' over and over again, real fast, and he sat down."

Grant was the only man in a small group sitting against the wall who was not handcuffed, Burris said, so officers grabbed him away from the wall and pressed him belly-down onto the ground.

"One officer was kneeling over his neck and head, and another standing over him," Burris said. "He was not kicking, and one officer was pulling on his arm. The standing officer pulled out his weapon and, within moments, fired the gun into Mr. Grant's back."

Burris said the bullet went through Grant's lower back and ricocheted off the ground up into his lungs, killing him.

BART's 206 sworn officers attend the same academies and training programs as city police and sheriff's deputies. According to BART's Web site, its requirements go beyond state guidelines, as every officer applicant must have completed at least a year of college.

Police have one video of the incident in evidence, different from the video that local media have released, and the quality of that video makes it hard to reach a sure conclusion, Gee said.

"It's not clear to me why the officer felt he needed to shoot. I don't know, and from my perspective it doesn't matter," Burris said.

Two authorities on police use of deadly force, both former law enforcement officers, said the newly discovered tape leaves unanswered questions.

"Strictly on the basis of this video, it is impossible to determine whether the shooting was justified because the officer who fired the shot might have seen some imminent threat to his or others' lives that the camera does not detect at that distance, angle and resolution," said Michael Scott, a University of Wisconsin law professor, former police chief in Florida and co-author of "Deadly Force: What We Know."

Scott said he watched the video several times. If there was a threat, he wrote in an e-mail to the Times, it "would most likely have to be a firearm or other weapon in the possession of Mr. Grant. However, if it turns out that Mr. Grant had no such weapon, it is awfully difficult to imagine what might have justified the use of deadly force."

Curtis J. Cope agreed that the tape doesn't show enough to draw clear conclusions.

"There are so many things we don't know," said Cope, a former 30-year law enforcement officer who has conducted police training and provides expert testimony in police procedure cases. "We certainly don't know the reason why they decided to put him prone on the ground. We don't know what reactions were taking place, what orders were being given and whether or not he is then complying or not complying. ... You need to look at every possible angle of it. Those angles all take time."

Grant was a butcher at popular Oakland grocery store Farmer Joe's and a loving father, family members said Sunday.

"He was so happy with his daughter," said Lita Gomez, sister to the mother of Grant's child. "You could see he was just so happy when he looked at her. Now, he's not going to be there for kindergarten. He's not going to be there for her prom. He's not going to be there for her wedding. She was robbed of that."

Family members erected a memorial for Grant outside the Fruitvale BART station Saturday night, where they said they plan to continue honoring his memory for 10 days.

A public funeral service is planned for 11 a.m. Wednesday at Palma Ceia Baptist Church, 28605 Ruus Road in Hayward, family members said.

Gee asked anyone with information on the shooting to call BART investigators at 877-679-7000, ext. 7040, or the Alameda County district attorney's office at 510-272-6222.

Staff writer John Simerman contributed to this report.

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Last edited by DeanC on Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:00 pm 
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Don't cops carry a "throw down piece" for dirty shoots anymore? Seems like the cops don't even care if it looks like a clean shoot anymore. Back in the day at least they'd pretend the dead guy had a weapon.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:11 pm 
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:cry: :cry: :cry:

Capital punishment is too good for this "officer".
Murder under the color of law. Too bad he can't be placed in front of a firing squad and put to death twice.

But what do I know? I only saw video evidence. I didn't hear what bad names the suspect might have called the three cops on top of him. :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:52 pm 
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Carbide Insert wrote:
:cry: :cry: :cry:

Capital punishment is too good for this "officer".
Murder under the color of law. Too bad he can't be placed in front of a firing squad and put to death twice.

But what do I know? I only saw video evidence. I didn't hear what bad names the suspect might have called the three cops on top of him. :roll:


I couldn't see crap on that video, maybe we should have some more facts before we bring out the tar and feathers.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:49 pm 
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Well, I saw crap in that video, even if you didn't. Second video, 34 seconds: officer draws. At 38 Seconds, his partners run away. After that, citizen is shot in the back, lying face down on the ground.

Seems he knew enough to let his buddies get clear of the ricochet that happened to go through Mr. Grant' lungs. Wise enough I suppose. It would be safe to assume that the blue wall one might count upon to save one's sorry ass would get thinner, if one happens to shoot one's partners along with the peasants.

:evil: :evil: :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: BART Police Shoot unarmed man in the back
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:59 pm 
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Quote:
Curtis J. Cope agreed that the tape doesn't show enough to draw clear conclusions.

"There are so many things we don't know," said Cope, a former 30-year law enforcement officer who has conducted police training and provides expert testimony in police procedure cases. "We certainly don't know the reason why they decided to put him prone on the ground. We don't know what reactions were taking place, what orders were being given and whether or not he is then complying or not complying. ... You need to look at every possible angle of it. Those angles all take time."


Yep, that's the rule. If the video is inconclusive then the call on the field stands and the challenging team is charged a time out.


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 Post subject: Re: BART Police Shoot unarmed man in the back
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:09 pm 
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Lenny7 wrote:
Yep, that's the rule. If the video is inconclusive then the call on the field stands and the challenging team is charged a time out.

It's good to have the referee on your paid staff. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:59 pm 
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Sorry, I too, did not see crap on that video. I watched it 5 times. I have no idea what happened.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:34 am 
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I was at a meeting tonight and one of my co-workers said it was a gun/taser brainfart. The officer thought he was drawing the taser.

This has happened before - in MN - and is possible. There are all kinds of theories involving muscle memory and where to place the taser so you don't mix the two up under stress.

I havent' confirmed this version from any official source, but it is definitely a possibility.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:29 am 
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Sounds entirely plausible, and more likely than that he decided to execute the guy.

Which is something that should be considered at sentencing, I think.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:52 am 
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In my observations elsewhere I have seen the Taser on the left, (weak side) and firearm on the right (strong side). While I have only observed Taser use in video, I have never seen "assisting officers" run when a Taser is drawn.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:05 am 
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pay no attention to the logic behind the blue curtain, their excuse is perfectly reasonable. That young man was laying on the floor face down and refusing to get up without rolling over while handcuffed. . . don't know why he was being so difficult with three officers helping him up by kneeling on him . . . it is obviously gravity's fault :shock:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:46 am 
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tman065 wrote:
I was at a meeting tonight and one of my co-workers said it was a gun/taser brainfart. The officer thought he was drawing the taser.


And that is better, because... how?
"Ohhhhh! You thought you were only drawing your taser! Well that makes it all ok then!" :roll:

Three officers on top of a unarmed, 160 lbs-ish guy. There is no taser justification there. Mr. Grant is now dead.

So now we can tell his family (and the public that will subsequently be served and protected by officer trigger happy) that he "only meant" to taser him.
Shall we see if that brings Mr. Grant back to life?

Negligent homicide, at the least, imo. Send him away.
(To court first, with his due process rights, and then away.)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:49 am 
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well, it's better than an intentional execution which was the early allegation, right ...

It's something that can be discussed, diagnosed, and through process and training hopefully eliminated.

Yeah, that's optimistic but it's a LOT more fixable than the intentional execution angle.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:17 pm 
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tman065 wrote:
I was at a meeting tonight and one of my co-workers said it was a gun/taser brainfart. The officer thought he was drawing the taser.

This has happened before - in MN - and is possible. There are all kinds of theories involving muscle memory and where to place the taser so you don't mix the two up under stress.

I havent' confirmed this version from any official source, but it is definitely a possibility.


I am really beginning to wonder whether the expanding use of Tasers is a net improvement in public safety. To be sure, there are cases where the suspect is suicidal or insane where Tasers work. On the other hand, it's only a pain compliance technique, prone to misuse, and complicates the officer's decisionmaking process.


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