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 Ramsey co taking longer than 30 days to 
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 9:12 am 
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gungirl29 wrote:
Maybe evil people won't follow the law, but should the Sheriff's department make it easy for them and just hand out gun permits to anyone that wants them just because they CAN have them?
Surely there are some other options? You might want to look into what all of the other eighty-odd sheriffs in Minnesota are doing. It would be hard to argue that they've all got it wrong and only Bob Fletcher got it right, wouldn't it?
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I COULD drive with my feet on the steering wheel, but it doesn't exactly make it a good idea.

You can disagree with whatever you want, but the fact of the matter is the people that work in law enforcement are required to do extensive background checks. You don't do their jobs everyday, so it is easy for you to sit at home on your computer and talk about how things should be done. If it is that much of a problem for you, write to your congressman and see if you can get things changed.
I take it you don't realize that one of the more prominent posters on the Forum is the guy who actually wrote most of 624.714?

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 9:50 am 
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gungirl29 wrote:
Maybe evil people won't follow the law, but should the Sheriff's department make it easy for them and just hand out gun permits to anyone that wants them just because they CAN have them? I COULD drive with my feet on the steering wheel, but it doesn't exactly make it a good idea.

You can disagree with whatever you want, but the fact of the matter is the people that work in law enforcement are required to do extensive background checks. You don't do their jobs everyday, so it is easy for you to sit at home on your computer and talk about how things should be done. If it is that much of a problem for you, write to your congressman and see if you can get things changed.
I agree that thorough background checks are expected and legally compelled. The problem is that in Ramsey County, thorough background checks are not being completed, and applicants are being denied for reasons not permitted by law. In some of those instances a thorough background check would have proven the applicant's eligibility.

As for driving with your feet, while you physically could do that, it would not be legal. It would be, at the very least, Careless Driving, a misdemeanor. Seeking a carry permit, on the other hand, is perfectly legal. You're comparing apples to bowling balls.

At the end of the day the problem isn't the denial of permits to people legally precluding from having one. (Those people rarely seek a permit in the first case.) It's the denial of permits to law-abiding people who are well within their rights to have one. Thankfully that problem seems, at least for the most part, limited to Ramsey County. If you don't believe me, take a look at the BCA's annual reports for the past few years. Ramsey County has a denial rate roughly five times that of any other metro area county, and more than six times the statewide average. The numbers don't lie.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 9:57 am 
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Aside: I recently heard from an acquaintance who is seeking a Ramsey Co Permit that a Deputy was in his neighborhood interviewing neighbors. The Deputy told them it was "nothing criminal".

Fortunately, the guy is quick witted and said something about doing a lot of work with kids and etc so you know, they like to be careful ...

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:07 am 
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Yup. The report is here.

Total applications (excluding Ramsey County) in 2007: 8684
Total denials (excluding Ramsey County) in 2007: 107

Denial rate, rest of the state: 1.2 % Hennepin, the biggest county, has a 3.25% denial rate; the majority of counties have a 0% denial rate.

Ramsey applications: 634
Ramsey denials: 87

Ramsey denial rate 13.5%

Something is rotten in the county of Ramsey. If you want to see more evidence of that, take a look at the financials in the BCA report.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:35 am 
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plblark wrote:
Aside: I recently heard from an acquaintance who is seeking a Ramsey Co Permit that a Deputy was in his neighborhood interviewing neighbors.

Well, I guess that is a <s>good</s> way for the county to spend all of the $100 application fee.


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:36 am 
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Welcome gungirl. Don’t forget we are living in the age of the computer. I have a niece that did these background checks for I think it was Ramsey Co. back 5 years ago and she told me it was a very clean, neat, and fast process. I can’t remember how quickly but it didn’t take her long to run one. It was part time duties and she devoted a couple hours in the morning to it. The sheriff is dragging his feet. He has 30 days to do what takes minutes.

One time I got to listen in to the FBI background check when I was buying a gun. The woman literally said, “Hold while we check, you can give him the gun”. There was no breath taken between “check” and “you”. It was that fast. So how come the FBI can do it in an instant and the good sheriff has to take longer than 30 days? Doesn’t make sense to me. I think that should be the standard for the vast majority of people.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:46 am 
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havegunjoe wrote:
One time I got to listen in to the FBI background check when I was buying a gun. The woman literally said, “Hold while we check, you can give him the gun”. There was no breath taken between “check” and “you”. It was that fast. So how come the FBI can do it in an instant and the good sheriff has to take longer than 30 days?

The FBI can't always do it in an instant. Used to be that I'd always get deferred. AIUI, the system used to be that if you had no file, they'd approve immediately, if you had any kind of file, they'd have to pass the approval to someone who could actually read. So even if you had a file only because you'd been granted a security clearance, you could still see yourself deferred.

I've been told that they've tried to speed this up, to reduce the number of deferrals. If so, I applaud them for it. I have to admit, the last time I did a NICS check, it was instantaneous. (If I'd been involved in the program, I'd have recorded when the file was last reviewed, and when data was last added to the file. If the file was reviewed and passed as having no disqualifying data, and no new data has been added since, the initial responder could then issue an immediate approval.)


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 10:51 am 
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gungirl29 wrote:
Maybe evil people won't follow the law, but should the Sheriff's department make it easy for them and just hand out gun permits to anyone that wants them just because they CAN have them? I COULD drive with my feet on the steering wheel, but it doesn't exactly make it a good idea.

You can disagree with whatever you want, but the fact of the matter is the people that work in law enforcement are required to do extensive background checks. You don't do their jobs everyday, so it is easy for you to sit at home on your computer and talk about how things should be done. If it is that much of a problem for you, write to your congressman and see if you can get things changed.


The only part that I disagree with you about is that I do not care whether a person carrying has a permit or not. Unless of course they are friends or family of mine. I do not advocate breaking the law. My point is that if some body has had a background check or not it does not make me any safer. The criminals don't care if you have a permit or not. In my opinion I believe the permits are required to make people FEEL safer but in the real world do not make us safer. Many here will disagree but that is why this is a great place to be. FYI I worked in LE for 4 years 1991-1995. I am now NRA instructor and MN carry permit instructor. Many of my buddies are still in LE and some agree we my opinion and some do not. Again, Welcome to the forum. I look forward to reading your opinions. :)


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:13 am 
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gungirl29 wrote:
Maybe evil people won't follow the law, but should the Sheriff's department make it easy for them and just hand out gun permits to anyone that wants them just because they CAN have them? I COULD drive with my feet on the steering wheel, but it doesn't exactly make it a good idea.

You can disagree with whatever you want, but the fact of the matter is the people that work in law enforcement are required to do extensive background checks. You don't do their jobs everyday, so it is easy for you to sit at home on your computer and talk about how things should be done. If it is that much of a problem for you, write to your congressman and see if you can get things changed.


Just for the record ... that's not me. I'd have picked a more unique nickname, but I was having issues that day. ;)


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:13 am 
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SultanOfBrunei wrote:
plblark wrote:
Aside: I recently heard from an acquaintance who is seeking a Ramsey Co Permit that a Deputy was in his neighborhood interviewing neighbors.

Well, I guess that is a <s>good</s> way for the county to spend all of the $100 application fee.
All, and more; Fletcher's carry permit program is stuck in "drunken sailor" spending mode.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:21 am 
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We really should thank him. THAT is the way activists are born.

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 Post subject: They are sitting on it
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 1:53 pm 
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Like I said in my post they accepted it they just wont mail it.
I brought it in early to avoid any rush, you would think helping them,
in return they sit on it and make me wait.
Next time ill bring it in at 31 days.
I am sure the back ground check was done long ago, they just sit on it because they can.
I still have my Permit to carry now, it just the point they cant do there job without messing with people.


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 Post subject: Re: They are sitting on it
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 4:50 pm 
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wtfgh wrote:
they cant do there job without messing with people.


+1


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:08 pm 
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joelr wrote:
Yup. The report is here.

Total applications (excluding Ramsey County) in 2007: 8684
Total denials (excluding Ramsey County) in 2007: 107

Denial rate, rest of the state: 1.2 % Hennepin, the biggest county, has a 3.25% denial rate; the majority of counties have a 0% denial rate.

Ramsey applications: 634
Ramsey denials: 87

Ramsey denial rate 13.5%

Something is rotten in the county of Ramsey. If you want to see more evidence of that, take a look at the financials in the BCA report.


Looking at Ramsey county BCA stat's for '07, it appears as though they could use an elected Sheriff, perhaps?

Anoka county on the other hand shows a 10 to 1 profit margin on processing permits for '07. Interesting statistic for a public service...

FYI, I just recieved my permit card today from Anoka when I applied with cash on the 29th of April. 30 days perfect timing. :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Chill out
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:10 pm 
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joelr wrote:
gungirl29 wrote:
I just got my renewal permit after 6 weeks but well before my permit expired. If you are responsible enough and get your stuff in advance there shouldn't be an issue. I had spoken with someone at RC and they informed me that aside from Hennepin County, they are leading in numbers of applicants and have half the staff of most other major counties. The people I dealt with there were extremely helpful and informative, I find it hard to believe they are just messing with applicants.
Well, there's no requirement that you believe it, but at least one of the regular posters here not only believes it, but has demonstrated it -- in court, and repeatedly, on behalf of his clients.
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They told me too that the Human Services checks required by law are backed up and those alone may take around 2 weeks to get back and that RC is known for doing extensive backgrounding on applicants.
Actually, they're pretty lazy. In at least several cases (I'm betting it's more, lots more), the "extensive backgrounding" consists of Rossman running a quickie computerized check, then cutting and pasting from a previous denial letter (whether or not the alleged facts of the previous denial have any relationship to the present denial, or anything else), and then using the "administrative appeal" process to further abuse his authority.
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I'm not sure about you all but if I see someone carrying in public I would like to know that they were thoroughly looked into and not just filled out a piece of paper to be allowed to carry. The laws requirements for backgrounding aren't that extensive, I appreciate Sheriff Fletcher seeing the imortance on going above and beyond to ensure the community is as safe as possible. To me, it is worth them taking a little more time to know that the permit holders will be safe and responsible. I can certainly handle waiting an extra week or two for that.
And that's fine; how long you're comfortable with demonstrably incompetent authorities violating the law when it comes to your situation is entirely your affair.

I'm not at all happy about those folks who have taken an oath to enforce the laws not only failing to do so, but chasing the laws down a back alley, yanking down the laws' pants, and buggering them.


I'm sorry you guys in MN are having such a problem with re-newing your permits, mine was up in MN 8/8/2008 and well, I moved, I didn't inform them of my move to CO and I now have a momento. (F Henn County)
I will soon apply for my CO and Utah permit as time permits (been darn busy with work) I will be scheduling a class sometime in June, however CO has up to 90 days to issue my permit and I plan to come back to MN to see about selling the house in MN so, I will only be able to have my weapon on my person when I am on my property in MN. Since my house is locate in N Mpls, good enough, thugs that think I am easy prey while I am there fixing things up to get the house on the market, I will have no problem putting a double or triple tap in center mass. :twisted:


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