Index  •  FAQ  •  Search  

It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 1:15 pm

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 14 posts ] 
 The constitution and RKBA 
Author Message
 Post subject: The constitution and RKBA
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:27 am 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:36 am
Posts: 702
Location: St. Paulish
The 2nd amendment guarantees our right to keep and bear arms. I don't think it gets much more clear than this. How can the new administration really be talking about taking away our right to keep assult rifles and bear (carry) handguns? I can't see this going very far. On top of that we have property laws that supposedly protect our property (ie. guns) which are backed by:
Quote:
The Fifth Amendment states:
Nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

And:
Quote:
The Fourteenth Amendment states:
...nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.

Its in there twice (it must have been an important point for our forefathers!) I don't bring this up to say I'm not worried about the possibility of the new administration disregarding the constitution in order to prevent crime. It just seems like taking away our right to keep assult rifles and bear (carry) handguns would be reaching too far and would face too much opposition. Or maybe I'm just an optimist.

_________________
Proud owner of 2 wonderful SGH holsters.
"If man will not work, he shall not eat" (2 Th 3:14)
"If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" -Jesus (Luke 22:36)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:02 am 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:36 pm
Posts: 440
Location: W. St. Paul
The problem is the Constitution only means what the 9 black robed justices of the Supreme Court say it means.

For example, in the recent Heller decision, all nine justices ruled for an individuals right but 4 of them said the government could still ban ownership.

_________________
I will never apologize for being an American!
http://post435gunclub.org/cmp.htm
cmpofficer@post435gunclub.org
http://mrra.org
6 down, 24 to go.


Offline
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:18 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:36 am
Posts: 702
Location: St. Paulish
Rip Van Winkle wrote:
The problem is the Constitution only means what the 9 black robed justices of the Supreme Court say it means.

That's a good point. Hopefully with the Heller decision being so recent the 9 will keep things how they are suppose to be. (Darn optimism shing through again!) It does seem like they are our last line of defense though.

_________________
Proud owner of 2 wonderful SGH holsters.
"If man will not work, he shall not eat" (2 Th 3:14)
"If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" -Jesus (Luke 22:36)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:02 pm 
Wise Elder
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:48 pm
Posts: 2782
Location: St. Paul
Modern constitutional law theory is biased toward "balancing" tests which emphasize the PERSONALITY of the judge doing the balancing. Absent the "Heller 5," they'll just "make it up" as they go.

Certainly the lower federal courts will continue to be results-oriented and ignore the Constitution when it pleases a majority of the panel. See: http://www.constitution.org/2ll/schol/g ... encite.htm

Depressing, isn't it.

G. W. Bush should have had the balls to create, push, and WIN a Constitutional crisis with the Senate after four years of sitting on his federal Court appointments. He should never have let the "gang of 14" make their deal with the Devilish Democrats. Obama will get to fill 200-300 seats in the next year alone. LIFETIME seats.

If it wasn't for the Democrats, I'd never vote for another spineless, incompetent, greedy Republican.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:11 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:44 pm
Posts: 1525
Location: Isanti, MN
kimberman wrote:
If it wasn't for the Democrats, I'd never vote for another spineless, incompetent, greedy Republican.


Yup, we need new blood leading the party. :!:

They were suggesting this weekend that Tim Paw is a up and coming, :oops: "conservative" :oops: , fresh face that could lead the party.......choke, gag........That's not going to get us where we need to go in my opinion. :evil:

_________________
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
- Winston Churchill -


WITHOUT LIBERTY THERE IS NO FREEDOM


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:19 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:46 pm
Posts: 845
Location: Saint Paul
To most liberals the Constitution of the United States is a living and very fluid document. To paraphrase our anointed new messiah, the Second Amendment means something different in rural areas than it does in urban south Chicago.


They actually believe that the Constitution may be applied in various ways to fit the occasion. They do not see it as the the backbone of a nation, demanding to be adhered to as written, and only to be amended through a very deliberate and demanding set of rules.

That is the one major thing that makes these people so dangerous. Their views legitimize the notion of the ends justifying any means they wish to take. The ultimate end, of course, is total domination and subjugation of the masses.

Why would a voter voice her opinion that with Obama in the White House she would not have to worry about paying her mortgage or paying for her gasoline: She believes, as do far too many people, that Obama will indeed resdistribute the nation's wealth. That is one of the major platforms he ran on. Tax the "rich". Once that is accomplished he will then disarm the populace and turn the nation into a true socialist state.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:26 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:46 pm
Posts: 845
Location: Saint Paul
Scott Hughes wrote:
kimberman wrote:
If it wasn't for the Democrats, I'd never vote for another spineless, incompetent, greedy Republican.


Yup, we need new blood leading the party. :!:

They were suggesting this weekend that Tim Paw is a up and coming, :oops: "conservative" :oops: , fresh face that could lead the party.......choke, gag........That's not going to get us where we need to go in my opinion. :evil:


Tim Pawlenty is an empty suit, recently disgraced nationally by not being chosen as the Republican Party's vice-presidential candidate. He is still smarting from that, but also still in full denial that his "moderate" stance is one major factor in the Republican Party losing so many national races.

Why would anyone choose a "liberal" Republican when the Democratic party will supply the genuine article? Pawlenty is of the same mold as Perpich, Carlson, et al. It is time for that boy to go.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:36 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:13 pm
Posts: 1743
Location: Lakeville
So, one of my wife's jr. high aged students is is a sportsman and takes/eats lots of small game. One day he came in fuming mad that Obama was going to take his guns. My wife simply stated that Obama wouldn't be taking her guns. The switch flipped on the young buck and he was proudly proclaiming the same sentiments.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:04 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:53 am
Posts: 1263
Location: MN
Traveler wrote:
To most liberals the Constitution of the United States is a living and very fluid document. To paraphrase our anointed new messiah, the Second Amendment means something different in rural areas than it does in urban south Chicago.


Imagine the horror and outrage if he tried to proclaim that the First Amendment means different things in different places. Or the amendments that guarantee the rights of blacks or women to vote.

_________________
Image
Image courtesy of Right Wing Swag


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:34 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:44 pm
Posts: 1525
Location: Isanti, MN
Tick Slayer wrote:
Imagine the horror and outrage if he tried to proclaim that the First Amendment means different things in different places.


I think there should be horror and outrage if they go through with the "Fairness Doctrine" B.S. :evil:

_________________
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
- Winston Churchill -


WITHOUT LIBERTY THERE IS NO FREEDOM


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:51 pm 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 4:05 pm
Posts: 312
Location: SE Metro
I saw this quote (or a part of it, at least) while walking this Freedom Trail in Boston last month.

Quote:
"I often wonder whether we do not rest our hopes too much upon constitutions, upon law and upon courts. These are false hopes, believe me, these are false hopes. Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it.

Judge Learned Hand
(1872-1961), Judge, U. S. Court of Appeals


It has always been my opinion that the Bill of Rights doesn't guarantee you sh*t, and my profession of this belief sometimes causes problems for me around here.

Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women...

Remember that, and be careful what you deem to be a "right". There are no such things.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:49 pm 
Longtime Regular

Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:19 pm
Posts: 2305
Dave Pendleton wrote:
I saw this quote (or a part of it, at least) while walking this Freedom Trail in Boston last month.

Quote:
"I often wonder whether we do not rest our hopes too much upon constitutions, upon law and upon courts. These are false hopes, believe me, these are false hopes. Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it.

Judge Learned Hand
(1872-1961), Judge, U. S. Court of Appeals


It has always been my opinion that the Bill of Rights doesn't guarantee you sh*t, and my profession of this belief sometimes causes problems for me around here.

Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women...

Remember that, and be careful what you deem to be a "right". There are no such things.


The comment I was going to make was something along the lines of:
What does the Constitution matter when the great leader is going to do what is right and take care of us?

Dave I agree with you one this one big time.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:50 pm 
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:22 pm
Posts: 339
Location: Suburban Twin Cities, MN
Tick Slayer wrote:
Imagine the horror and outrage if he tried to proclaim that the First Amendment means different things in different places.


Too late, it already does...


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:38 pm 
Longtime Regular
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:24 am
Posts: 6767
Location: Twin Cities
Dave Pendleton wrote:
Remember that, and be careful what you deem to be a "right". There are no such things.


Of course there are. That they are routinely violated does not negate their existence.

_________________
* NRA, UT, MADFI certified Minnesota Permit to Carry instructor, and one of 66,513 law-abiding permit holders. Read my blog.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 14 posts ] 

This is a static archive the Twin Cities Carry forum, maintained as a public service by the current forum of record, The Minnesota Carry Forum.

All times are UTC - 6 hours


 Who is online 

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron


 
Index  |  FAQ  |  Search

phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group